Animal Fleeing AI Rework

[gas56]

last night I read what Jimbo stated and was thinking well that makes some sense in the way he assumes what the devs have in plan for animal fleeing A.I.,..
It did kind of irritate me at first that may be a reason why they asked it that way, but sometimes turning over a rock doesn't mean you'll always find a bug under it.
And I've had all day to think about it, and really can't say if that's a viable assumption.....
This game is an ongoing production from the start of EW acquiring it and so anything they add has also revised the code of the game.
Thus some unforeseen bug game updates. Even doing everything they possibly think won't effect the game there is always something missed and we are
the informers to them of the latter product which in our turn is making bug reports.
Adding a new vehicle or any new feature does not change this process.
All we can do is tell them that things in the new feature may not be welcomed as it was with the Polar Bear hunting was first implemented with only special event hunting them.
That did not blow over too well with players and EW took the hint after all the complaining that was done and changed it to a more acceptable way of hunting them like any other
animal on a daily basis. So if they are giving us a heads up notice with a partial change of the fleeing A.I. it may be a inquiry of how we think it would effect our acceptability
on a part of that change. As the fleeing A.I. will have to be made along with the new transport no matter what as BnB stated, but what parts of it do we want it to have?
I think that is a fair assumption,.. at least I hope it is...........

[J_Birdman]

All we can do is tell them that things in the new feature may not be welcomed as it was with the Polar Bear hunting was first implemented with only special event hunting them.
That did not blow over too well with players and EW took the hint after all the complaining that was done and changed it to a more acceptable way of hunting them like any other
animal on a daily basis. So if they are giving us a heads up notice with a partial change of the fleeing A.I. it may be a inquiry of how we think it would effect our acceptability
on a part of that change. As it will have to be made no matter what, but what parts of it do we want it to have?
I think that is a fair assumption,.. at least I hope it is...........

Except that this didn't happen. You are viewing this thing through massively rose-tinted glasses. 1. The "new and improved fleeing animal AI upgrade" wasn't released, this was a question posed by EW before them actually doing the thing they're asking about. 2. This was not a "heads up" as you suggest it is, again this was posed as a question. 3. It's not a fair assumption, it's bending over backwards in the hopes that someone's theory is false. You are allowing that the theory may be true while at the same time being extremely sympathetic to what may amount to something really huge. Not a pre-release "heads up", not a post-release bug report, but an actual deception. I get it, I doubt many of us were very happy when we were told that Santa doesn't really exist. However it turns out, I got a bag of popcorn and a brick all set to go.

[DanthemanBoone]

Hey all,

We are starting to look into changing the animal fleeing AI, but were wondering if it is going to be something you actually want? Currently it is a little unrealistic and predictable.

So the question I want to ask is "Would you like to see the animal fleeing AI more randomised, or would this change be too drastic and infuriating?"

Please do not reply with other examples of AI that needs to be changed, this is potentially a first step into getting some changes in other areas as well.

Looking forward to reading your thoughts.
..................................................................................................................
The thing that has always bugged me is the fact that animals always flee directly away from the hunter when shot or spooked by him.
In real life they will usually run directly to the nearest cover, sometimes even towards the shot if they are confused.
At least half the time an animal is shot it will run in the direction it is facing. That opens up the possibility for quartering away and side on shots on a running animal. Currently the only option for the follow up shot is up the butt.
The further away an animal is the less it is able to accurately pinpoint the source of a shot. But our animals will still flee directly away from a shot made 300 yards downrange.
The code that causes this directional flee pattern needs to be loosened up.

The other problem is that in real life a wounded animal will follow the line of least resistance, Not bolt up the side of a cliff at full speed. Wound severity needs to have an effect on the speed and fleeing direction, not full speed ahead until it drops dead. Life force loss and running speed need to be more balanced... and interconnected.

I would like to see the spook directions changed, more options including running left or right from the spook source instead of spinning around up to 180 degrees and running directly away across 200m of open ground.

Good luck with coding all of that.

[gas56]

All we can do is tell them that things in the new feature may not be welcomed as it was with the Polar Bear hunting was first implemented with only special event hunting them.
That did not blow over too well with players and EW took the hint after all the complaining that was done and changed it to a more acceptable way of hunting them like any other
animal on a daily basis. So if they are giving us a heads up notice with a partial change of the fleeing A.I. it may be a inquiry of how we think it would effect our acceptability
on a part of that change. As it will have to be made no matter what, but what parts of it do we want it to have?
I think that is a fair assumption,.. at least I hope it is...........

Except that this didn't happen. You are viewing this thing through massively rose-tinted glasses. 1. The "new and improved fleeing animal AI upgrade" wasn't released, this was a question posed by EW before them actually doing the thing they're asking about. 2. This was not a "heads up" as you suggest it is, again this was posed as a question. 3. It's not a fair assumption, it's bending over backwards in the hopes that someone's theory is false. You are allowing that the theory may be true while at the same time being extremely sympathetic to what may amount to something really huge. Not a pre-release "heads up", not a post-release bug report, but an actual deception. I get it, I doubt many of us were very happy when we were told that Santa doesn't really exist. However it turns out, I got a bag of popcorn and a brick all set to go.

What part don't you understand that they are going to make this Fleeing A.I. for animals to spook and flee for this new transport?
It has to be an integral part of the transport with or without our approval of how they put it together. And where did you get that from where I thought it was already released?
And they did ask us a question about some parts of it that they wanted to know what we think of it.
Now if that isn't a heads-up for us of what they're thinking of possibly doing with it than I don't know what is.
I suggest that we just wait and see what is going to happen besides assuming what is going to happen.
So why make all these accusations that are totally irrelevant to the final product that you haven't even seen yet?
I was born at night,.. but not last night......
Next time just leave Santa Claus out of it!..............

[Radamus]

Change fleeing? I read a few random posts by the old guard and it's impossible to not suggest some other areas of AI to look at if you all really need something to keep busy.
Any changes with the game scare me, lets take the update last week alone- how many game updates have we all seen? Some of us dozens upon dozens and this past week with the update caught in a loop~ how many times folks have we seen that? dozens? Something that's done regularly and still gets caught in the sand trap? - Changing AI that we're used to scares me because whatever happens and we don't like it we get the answer "It's working as designed" ~ is that the answer to the wolves chasing? Bobcats spooking? and bears spooking everything too now?
I can't have a serious opinion on something like this other than scratching my head and asking "What? you're kidding right? No you aren't kidding? Oh wowzer" .... Guess you want the Mods' to be more active?

You said not to, but I suggest if you want to mess with animal AI, do something with calls and callers, put some skill requirement into calls. Currently, all a call is, is a switch. Call a deer, pull up and make caller go "boop" or as Hoo once said, as soon as your elbow is up the switch is flipped. IRL if you don't properly use the call it's not going to work.

Fleeing? Pretty simple, they're going to run when spooked. But if you really want to go there let me bring up 1 animal many of us have some IRL experience, whitetail deer- If I fire an arrow at a deer in the woods and miss? He's not going anywhere, he's curious what that noise is. I had a miss once from a TS (IRL bow hunting), smoked a tree I didn't see right beside him, he actually walked in my direction out of curiosity. If you shoot at 1 with a gun he's going to the woods and as soon as he's in the woods he will stop and turn around to see what just made that noise. Where I live in farm country, wide open and flat, I've see deer get shot at in a section of woods and saw them go blasting out into the open field. They ran out a couple hundred yards in the wide open and stopped, turned around and all of them stood there watching the woods trying to figure out what it was. They do the same thing in the woods, but you may not see it, but they are looking for you and when/if they see you, they are headed for the next county
Another aspect of animal AI let's take coyote- a coyote will not walk into a call if he's not going in to the wind, he uses his nose - If he's upwind, he's going to circle you and come in to the call from down wind. I believe fox will do the same but I've never hunted them, only shot them when spotted. Fox are considered a varmint here and we blow em away with whatever gun we happen to have because no one buys fur any longer, they are as insignificant as a groundhog or coyote, a nuisance animal.

[J_Birdman]

All we can do is tell them that things in the new feature may not be welcomed as it was with the Polar Bear hunting was first implemented with only special event hunting them.
That did not blow over too well with players and EW took the hint after all the complaining that was done and changed it to a more acceptable way of hunting them like any other
animal on a daily basis. So if they are giving us a heads up notice with a partial change of the fleeing A.I. it may be a inquiry of how we think it would effect our acceptability
on a part of that change. As it will have to be made no matter what, but what parts of it do we want it to have?
I think that is a fair assumption,.. at least I hope it is...........

Except that this didn't happen. You are viewing this thing through massively rose-tinted glasses. 1. The "new and improved fleeing animal AI upgrade" wasn't released, this was a question posed by EW before them actually doing the thing they're asking about. 2. This was not a "heads up" as you suggest it is, again this was posed as a question. 3. It's not a fair assumption, it's bending over backwards in the hopes that someone's theory is false. You are allowing that the theory may be true while at the same time being extremely sympathetic to what may amount to something really huge. Not a pre-release "heads up", not a post-release bug report, but an actual deception. I get it, I doubt many of us were very happy when we were told that Santa doesn't really exist. However it turns out, I got a bag of popcorn and a brick all set to go.

What part don't you understand that they are going to make this Fleeing A.I. for animals to spook and flee for this new transport?
It has to be an integral part of the transport with or without our approval of how they put it together. And where did you get that from where I thought it was already released?
And they did ask us a question about some parts of it that they wanted to know what we think of it.
Now if that isn't a heads-up for us of what they're thinking of possibly doing with it than I don't know what is.
I suggest that we just wait and see what is going to happen besides assuming what is going to happen.
So why make all these accusations that are totally irrelevant to the final product that you haven't even seen yet?
I was born at night,.. but not last night......
Next time just leave Santa Claus out of it!..............

The truth will be shown.

[INTIMID883R]

Change fleeing? I read a few random posts by the old guard and it's impossible to not suggest some other areas of AI to look at if you all really need something to keep busy.
Any changes with the game scare me, lets take the update last week alone- how many game updates have we all seen? Some of us dozens upon dozens and this past week with the update caught in a loop~ how many times folks have we seen that? dozens? Something that's done regularly and still gets caught in the sand trap? - Changing AI that we're used to scares me because whatever happens and we don't like it we get the answer "It's working as designed" ~ is that the answer to the wolves chasing? Bobcats spooking? and bears spooking everything too now?
I can't have a serious opinion on something like this other than scratching my head and asking "What? you're kidding right? No you aren't kidding? Oh wowzer" .... Guess you want the Mods' to be more active?

You said not to, but I suggest if you want to mess with animal AI, do something with calls and callers, put some skill requirement into calls. Currently, all a call is, is a switch. Call a deer, pull up and make caller go "boop" or as Hoo once said, as soon as your elbow is up the switch is flipped. IRL if you don't properly use the call it's not going to work.

Fleeing? Pretty simple, they're going to run when spooked. But if you really want to go there let me bring up 1 animal many of us have some IRL experience, whitetail deer- If I fire an arrow at a deer in the woods and miss? He's not going anywhere, he's curious what that noise is. I had a miss once from a TS (IRL bow hunting), smoked a tree I didn't see right beside him, he actually walked in my direction out of curiosity. If you shoot at 1 with a gun he's going to the woods and as soon as he's in the woods he will stop and turn around to see what just made that noise. Where I live in farm country, wide open and flat, I've see deer get shot at in a section of woods and saw them go blasting out into the open field. They ran out a couple hundred yards in the wide open and stopped, turned around and all of them stood there watching the woods trying to figure out what it was. They do the same thing in the woods, but you may not see it, but they are looking for you and when/if they see you, they are headed for the next county
Another aspect of animal AI let's take coyote- a coyote will not walk into a call if he's not going in to the wind, he uses his nose - If he's upwind, he's going to circle you and come in to the call from down wind. I believe fox will do the same but I've never hunted them, only shot them when spotted. Fox are considered a varmint here and we blow em away with whatever gun we happen to have because no one buys fur any longer, they are as insignificant as a groundhog or coyote, a nuisance animal.

You are of course right with all the above, but you left out the vehicle, Deer are not frightened by vehicles, and for sure don't panic and run for hundreds of yards every time they hear one, whether in the woods or on a road. My biggest fear about the whole new A I thing, is who is the resident "expert" who has decided just how this new fleeing A I will be, and where he/she got their vast experience with fleeing wild animals. What we have now is an absolute joke, but we are at least used to it. I shudder to think what will be going on if it is changed.
Who ever got the idea that a wounded animal finds the steepest cliff they can find to climb when they are dying. Or the roughest rock pile and tangle of bushes when they are fleeing for their life. If my limited lifetime experience with animals in the wild, when they are spooked by a noise, they tend to run in the direction they are facing, and only a very short distance, then they stop and try to determine from which direction the noise came. When wild animals move from one point to another (bedding to food food to water) they take the route of least resistance. They don't look for a mountain to climb or a river to swim across. Anyway I am rambling and nothing you or I or anyone else says will change a thing, as always EW will do as it pleases regardless of what their paying customers want.

[gas56]

nothing you or I or anyone else says will change a thing, as always EW will do as it pleases regardless of what their paying customers want.

Isn't that the truth............
It is a taken given that with this new transport if it has wheels and a motor that some Fleeing A.I. will have to be made so when you come into
range of an animal that you just won't be able to pull up beside of it, or run it over. Some animals don't spook before you can run up to them
and bump into to them first, like Whitetail Does(females), or Elk cows now work sometimes in the game. There has to be a collision factor made for it to work right.
That is what has to be made,...
But altering the whole animal fleeing structure doesn't need to change at all,..
I don't want to see an animal flee for no reason at all like in COTW.
There is so many details of the way animals react to different factors which could make the game more realistic and interesting to watch how new A.I. would work
along with the animation for it,.......but will there be 100% guaranteed that it won't create more bugs if they change it? of course not! We all know that.

[Dilaj]

This rework Will release in the same time with the vechile?

[Dilaj]

Why dont you open the beta? and then maybe we could see what the game will looks after the vechile and the new fleeing AI and then everyone could see it and decide they want it or no.

This will be a very big update in my opinion, the game survived almost 10 years without a vechile so i think it wroth to open the beta and we could see how the vechile impact the gameplay and if its fleeing AI rework mean +200% run speed to all animals then thanks no.

Maybe its will kill the whole gameplay maybe not we need to wait until they release it.

Sorry for my eng. Peace!