TheHunter Call of The Wild VS TheHunter Classic 2

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skogseide
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TheHunter Call of The Wild VS TheHunter Classic 2

Postby skogseide » May 25th, 2018, 5:32 pm

Hi all.

Just a quick few questions here..

Can somebody please explain me this:

How come EW had the money and time and funds to create a whole new game in TheHunter Call of The Wild? Instead of spending some of the time and money on a new TheHunter Classic? I mean, the money and time and effort making a new TheHunter Classic wich they already know how should be, compared to making a whole new game in Thehunter Call of The Wild should at least cost the same or less?

So.. in my opinion, there should be mega chance of seeing TheHunter Classic 2 soon enough! As they obviously can make a whole new hunting game with better graphics, they deffently can make a game they already know how should be!

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it should be fully possible!
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Re: TheHunter Call of The Wild VS TheHunter Classic 2

Postby caledonianblues » May 25th, 2018, 5:56 pm

It's completely possible, technically. But that doesn't really mean anything.

You asked why Expansive Worlds chose to invest money in a brand new game, instead of making a new version of Classic, and I guess only someone from the company board could give you a definitive answer, but my guess would be for two main reasons:

  • a new version of Classic with all the reserves, content, statistics and functionality that members would expect (after having already paid for them) would take considerably longer than it took to make Call of the Wild
  • the new version of the game would not necessarily appeal to any new players, whereas Call of the Wild tapped into an existing and a new target audience, almost guaranteeing break even as a minimum

Call of the Wild is an easier game to sell. It's much cheaper, looks prettier and requires much less investment of time from the player. That's the way I see Call of the Wild, anyway. So, they immediately had a vast audience just waiting to snap the game up on Steam. Plus, with plans to release it on console, they had another completely different group of players just waiting to drop some cash on it. A low risk investment with a reasonable chance of a offering a decent amount of fun in return. Having to recover the costs it would require to upgrade this game to a new engine would be a much tougher job than that of recovering the investment in Call of the Wild.

To port Classic to a new engine and give all the players the content they own today would cost an eye-watering amount of money. Especially for a studio based in Sweden. Any company looking to make such a commitment for such a niche game with a "love-it-or-hate-it" commercial model, would be looking at substantial financial losses in the region of many million dollars, and wouldn't recover those costs for years. Not many financial directors sign on the dotted line when asked to accept losses with such a lengthy return period.

I would hazard a guess that the official answer is in there ^ somewhere.
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Re: TheHunter Call of The Wild VS TheHunter Classic 2

Postby skogseide » May 25th, 2018, 6:12 pm

caledonianblues wrote:It's completely possible, technically. But that doesn't really mean anything.

You asked why Expansive Worlds chose to invest money in a brand new game, instead of making a new version of Classic, and I guess only someone from the company board could give you a definitive answer, but my guess would be for two main reasons:

  • a new version of Classic with all the reserves, content, statistics and functionality that members would expect (after having already paid for them) would take considerably longer than it took to make Call of the Wild
  • the new version of the game would not necessarily appeal to any new players, whereas Call of the Wild tapped into an existing and a new target audience, almost guaranteeing break even as a minimum

Call of the Wild is an easier game to sell. It's much cheaper, looks prettier and requires much less investment of time from the player. That's the way I see Call of the Wild, anyway. So, they immediately had a vast audience just waiting to snap the game up on Steam. Plus, with plans to release it on console, they had another completely different group of players just waiting to drop some cash on it. A low risk investment with a reasonable chance of a offering a decent amount of fun in return. Having to recover the costs it would require to upgrade this game to a new engine would be a much tougher job than that of recovering the investment in Call of the Wild.

To port Classic to a new engine and give all the players the content they own today would cost an eye-watering amount of money. Especially for a studio based in Sweden. Any company looking to make such a commitment for such a niche game with a "love-it-or-hate-it" commercial model, would be looking at substantial financial losses in the region of many million dollars, and wouldn't recover those costs for years. Not many financial directors sign on the dotted line when asked to accept losses with such a lengthy return period.

I would hazard a guess that the official answer is in there ^ somewhere.


I agree with you caldeonianblues, no doubt about it.

However, sooner or later they will have to deal with porting classic or making a new classic with the same elements etc. It seems like a lot of people want the graphics from Call of The Wild, but the gameplay from Classic. So, I can't for the life of me now figure out why shouldn't it be made? Investments VS Income would most likely be a huge success. Call of The Wild (like you said, break even on the financial side) + TheHunter Classic (deffently a money machine) = An even better good looking money machine giving even more income! :)

Appreciate your point of view anyway! :)
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Re: TheHunter Call of The Wild VS TheHunter Classic 2

Postby caledonianblues » May 25th, 2018, 6:33 pm

skogseide wrote:Investments VS Income would most likely be a huge success.

Not for years it wouldn't, and that's the problem. Imagine this scenario. An investment advisor approaches you:

"I have a fantastic investment opportunity for you. It's a hunting game. It already has a pretty decent number of players but the engine is old and we want to upgrade it to a new engine. It's going to require an investment in the region of $6m USD (a pretty accurate estimate in my humble opinion) and the plan is to break even in ca. 24-36 months. After that, when the game is profitable we can start to pay you back. So in about 60 months you might have all your money back without interest."

What a deal eh?! Would you do it? If you run Avalanche Studios, would you put your neck on the line? Do you know for a fact that you would be able to pay back an investor if you were the one seeking investment? Would you bet your career in an unforgiving industry that it would be a success? I doubt you would, and I doubt you have any evidence that suggests it would be a sensible decision. I suspect you only want to hope it would be, because you love the game. And that's fine! I do too, a huge amount. But there's a significant risk that it would just be a dream game for the same loyal players, and another game to get criticised for being stunningly beautiful but far too expensive. The existing players would be eternally grateful, but that wouldn't get you your investment back.

If a huge amount of effort went into marketing this game (not just on Steam or social media) to the correct audience, with complete transparency about the commercial model, things could maybe be different. That too would require investment though. It's easy for a player who loves the game to believe in its potential and have a vision for it, but if you look at this game in pretty much every numerical sense, things start to get a little cloudy. I believe the game on a new engine could be a huge success too, for what it's worth, but I would never expect someone else to take the financial risk based on my emotional attachment to an ageing gem.
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Re: TheHunter Call of The Wild VS TheHunter Classic 2

Postby Nathan112244 » May 25th, 2018, 7:37 pm

I don't see a point in " Thehunter Classic 2 " its not like call of duty, the game gets updated and stuff is added all the time, COTW looks better because the engine in brand new but the player count going from one game to the other is significantly lower then the number of players in classic. It takes one hell of a PC to run COTW and not everyone has a PC up to standards. And honestly i think the way the graphics are in classic is more realistic then COTW.

COTW seems too cartoony to me, animal fur is all shiny like a New Ferrari right off the lot. Yeah, some of the features of the game are good like the grass getting patted down and the moose animations being much better then classic but i like the graphics style in classic better, seems almost rustic compared to COTW.
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Re: TheHunter Call of The Wild VS TheHunter Classic 2

Postby VonStratos » May 25th, 2018, 8:44 pm

Also lets face it, this game good or bad as is now, has survived in this niche because there is not any real competition, there is no other online hunting game with the same functions, reserve style game play, competitions, etc appealing to the same player base, sure there is single player hunting games like the Cabela ones, but those are arcades(aim to kids and gamers more than simmers and real hunters) or too old like the Deer Hunter series from over a decade, so that gives a certain margin to EW to add more weapons and keep the status quo instead focus and invest in a new engine or game.

Lets say tomorrow some new online hunting sim from another company show up, with the same style and functionalities than The Hunter but in a engine actualized to nowadays, new players and future players would jump there just for the eye candy, even old The hunter players would at least check it out, and that competition would make a dramatic impact on EW and the future of "classic" and any possible The Hunter 2 development.

I like "Classic" even if it feels outdated, but eventually this gotta evolve in a new engine or a new game, maybe not tomorrow nor next year but time reaches everything and nothing last forever.

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Re: TheHunter Call of The Wild VS TheHunter Classic 2

Postby TurboKid » May 25th, 2018, 10:28 pm

1 Easy answer is...

COTW is a console game TheHunterClassic is not.

EW made a smart move moving into the console market getting new players they were never gonna get on pc, to recognize their brand. Now if that person wants more they may signup to TheHunter classic and buy stuff.

So now you have 2 games making money. and you have a billboard at walmart, bestbuy, xboxlive, psn, etc.
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Re: TheHunter Call of The Wild VS TheHunter Classic 2

Postby skogseide » May 26th, 2018, 3:16 am

caledonianblues wrote:
skogseide wrote:Investments VS Income would most likely be a huge success.

Not for years it wouldn't, and that's the problem. Imagine this scenario. An investment advisor approaches you:

"I have a fantastic investment opportunity for you. It's a hunting game. It already has a pretty decent number of players but the engine is old and we want to upgrade it to a new engine. It's going to require an investment in the region of $6m USD (a pretty accurate estimate in my humble opinion) and the plan is to break even in ca. 24-36 months. After that, when the game is profitable we can start to pay you back. So in about 60 months you might have all your money back without interest."

What a deal eh?! Would you do it? If you run Avalanche Studios, would you put your neck on the line? Do you know for a fact that you would be able to pay back an investor if you were the one seeking investment? Would you bet your career in an unforgiving industry that it would be a success? I doubt you would, and I doubt you have any evidence that suggests it would be a sensible decision. I suspect you only want to hope it would be, because you love the game. And that's fine! I do too, a huge amount. But there's a significant risk that it would just be a dream game for the same loyal players, and another game to get criticised for being stunningly beautiful but far too expensive. The existing players would be eternally grateful, but that wouldn't get you your investment back.

If a huge amount of effort went into marketing this game (not just on Steam or social media) to the correct audience, with complete transparency about the commercial model, things could maybe be different. That too would require investment though. It's easy for a player who loves the game to believe in its potential and have a vision for it, but if you look at this game in pretty much every numerical sense, things start to get a little cloudy. I believe the game on a new engine could be a huge success too, for what it's worth, but I would never expect someone else to take the financial risk based on my emotional attachment to an ageing gem.


I have to dissagree. Sorry to see you feel this game doesn't have a future. What you're saying is that its too expencive to upgrade to a better engine, so we might as well stop playing and paying all together now cause the game will eventually die.

I would pay and play for this game, until there comes a new game with same or better gameplay and better graphics. Like one of the other guys here said, eventually there will be a game that comes a long looking better and has better gameplay that will bring people from this game to the new one. And, if EW isn't prepared for that or falls behind, then it might as well be game over. SO, I would rather see an upgraded theHunter as soon as possible, cause upgrading when a new game already is out, might be way too late.

I'm not trying to make this difficult for anyone, I just want to see this game live on forever, but I'm afraid it won't if it doesn't get the upgrade it needs. If Ford never upgraded their cars, what would you think would happen? If Microsoft never upgraded their Windows, what would happen? What doesn't stay up to date, dies eventually. Hard fact.
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Re: TheHunter Call of The Wild VS TheHunter Classic 2

Postby DanthemanBoone » May 26th, 2018, 4:25 am

I would hazard a guess that moving to a new engine would probably halve the player base of theHunter classic and therefore halve the income flow. So many of us would not be able to find the finances needed to upgrade to the new requirements a new engine and graphics upgrade would require.
So what caledonian blues wrote is a very real analysis but his projection of the time line for recovering the required capital outlay is probably understated.
A new version would have to be built and coded from scratch as the Devs have already stated that the current game can not simply be copy and pasted to a new engine. This game has been 10 years in the making so far, how long do you reasonably expect it would take to remake it with all the current content.

Then comes the hit to EWs reputation, do you think those players with so much invested in the current game and who can't afford to upgrade are going to sit around quietly while their money disappears down the gurgler.

I also believe this game will have to end when it is no longer a viable economic venture in its current state, but that is a normal outcome and will be acceptable if reasonable warning is given and the servers are kept open long enough to allow the majority of memberships to run out naturally.
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Re: TheHunter Call of The Wild VS TheHunter Classic 2

Postby D3AKUs » May 26th, 2018, 4:50 am

If they ever release a full Hunter 2 i would say it would be the smartest move to still have this game running aswell if there is a healthy amount left when the new on goes live. For people with lower end specs and ofc vets and fans that have played it for years already and will still stick with it. Make the 2nd have the same model and the sub count for both games. People who switch to the new game get a percentage of their invested premium cash in Classic as a start up in the new game for a good kick start, so they can feel right at home and dont get a sense of to much "wasted" money while switching. I dont see a problem in both exisiting at the same time.

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