Status Update - 1st March 2018

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BucksNBuffalo
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Status Update - 1st March 2018

Postby BucksNBuffalo » March 3rd, 2018, 2:59 pm

TreeKiwi wrote:
BucksNBuffalo wrote:
TreeKiwi wrote:I did not say anything about polar bears, it was in reference to Grizzly bears. People starting to talk about behaviors that are not a common trait for them. I went live and shot two on Thursday with bows, I really do not see the problem with them.

I know this, my brother. I brought up the Polar Bears because I have no real problems with the Grizzlies. My only thing about the Grizzlies is that it’s only the small females that attack, and the males all run like hell which certainly isn’t right but it’s nowhere near as wrong as the Polar Bear is. The Polar Bear in game is the exact opposite of what it should be, when it should be the most dangerous animal in the game. And it makes it virtually worthless to hunt because they do not spawn in great numbers as it is. Aggressive Polar Bears, as they should be, would really justify the low numbers.


Well if you read the link. It says that IF they do attack, it is mostly (70% of all attacks) always females who are defending their cubs, so if it is a higher percentage of females attacking, considering we do not even have cubs in the game. I would say that is pretty accurate.

I have actually just spent the last hour reading about Polar Bears as well, here are some quotes straight from the Wiki article.
"Unlike brown bears, polar bears are not territorial. Although stereotyped as being voraciously aggressive, they are normally cautious in confrontations, and often choose to escape rather than fight.[73] Satiated polar bears rarely attack humans unless severely provoked." and then "However, due to their lack of prior human interaction, hungry polar bears are extremely unpredictable, fearless towards people and are known to kill and sometimes eat humans"

So the second highlighted quote arguably helps you more than me, accept that it states that HUNGRY polar bears are extremely unpredictable. I do not imagine there is a food shortage in the EHR, Doc would not allow that [emoji6] . So after reading more about both Grizzlies and Polar bear it has re confirmed that their behaviour now is actually pretty spot on!

Good debate non the less.

Mat, I promise you I am not arguing with you of course, merely debating. I know you know me better than that my friend so I don’t have to explain lol. Thing is, on the Internet you can find an argument for everything. I’m sure if you look around you’ll find many scientific articles on how the sky is green. The overall general consensus of the Polar Bear when it comes to humans is very well documented, even going back to the tribes of the areas. Polar Bears have no fear of humans, mainly because they live a bit more isolated and do not have a lot of encounters with humans. That does not mean they run away. Even a curious Polar Bear is a dangerous Polar Bear. And yes of course, hungry Polar Bears will certainly target humans as prey. Probably not a good idea to be walking in Polar Bear country when they come out of hibernation, huh? Not to mention that at times Polar Bears can walk great distances in search of food, slower moving food, making animals such as Arctic Fox and Snowshoe Hares not exactly an easy nor filling meal. And as it appears, in the areas of WRR that we find Polar Bears, there mostly Arctic Fox and Snowshoes Hares. So go figure that [emoji6]
Bottom line, from the gameplay perspective, is that they are BORING. You might like the boring aspect, but you also were not here when they were released. I don’t mean that with any disrespect mind you, just that you have nothing to compare with is all. When the PB were released, the stalking mechanic that was in place was really cool. You had to be on guard when you walked in PB areas, because it was not uncommon to turn around and see a Polar Bear coming your way and already at 30m. It was really nice. There was a good mix of aggression and fleeing behavior, and it made sense. The Polar Bears were fun, but not arcadey-like. Somewhere along the line, that mechanic was either broken or scrapped with no word from EW. They just suddenly became like any other Bear. And then that bug happened, which made them all into complete sissies. And then came “the fix”. Now, they are extremely BORING, and are just like the other Bear species who basically all act the same. The only times they can be fun is if you have a bait barrel with a lot of Black/Brown Bears around, and getting to that barrel can be a bit tough if you are tryin not to spook anything. I’ve been attacked by more Black Bears recently than any other Bear in the game. Males, females, large and small. But now you have the Grizzlies, which I do agree the behavior is more life-like, but still have an issue as it seems only small females attack. The others all flee from 100-150mt out. Same with Polar Bears, exact same, like no thought was put into the fix. Just copy-paste and release as fixed. Our in-game Bears have a lot of issues, some not really glaring or gamebreaking mind you, but just not right. And it makes for extremely boring gameplay. When players get bored of something, they usually stop eventually. I actually haven’t seen a Brown Bear posted in the TruRacs thread in quite a while, same with Black Bear. I may be wrong of course as there are posts I miss, but I remember back when it seems there were bears on every page. Anyway, sorry for long ass post lol, but hey..at least you’ll have something to read lol. [emoji6]
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1Al
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Re: Status Update - 1st March 2018

Postby 1Al » March 3rd, 2018, 3:20 pm

HunterVK wrote:
TreeKiwi wrote:
HunterVK wrote:TK, u killed 2 small bears , that's point. Only small bears attacking and not spook easy. But big ones is almost impossible to hunt in woods.. U cann hope only that he will run on open so u cann shoot at him from more than 150m.


I am happy to go and have a look for some big ones :) I have never shot a trophy one yet. These were ones I came across, I was not actively hunting them. All big animals in the game are more spooky as well, just worth mentioning.

yes they R spooky but is bored an no fun trackin 1h RT big bear and than give up because he never stop even if u all time crouching with scent eliminator.. On other side u cann easily kill unrealistic number of small bears . Here's example https://www.thehunter.com/#profile/hunt ... n/79959978

Exactly. Another big issue with GB males is that they are scared at 150m and then never stop to flee, I saw tracks after hundreds of meters in crouch mode, and they were always in fleeing mode. Once for istance, I started the game from tent, next to that I have a tower, as soon as I climbed the tower, I saw with binoculars a fleeing big grizzly, I guess a male, it was at 215 mt. It's basically impossible to hunt them. Then I've been there to get close few male grizzlies, but it is rather random.
Spoiler:


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gas56
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Re: Status Update - 1st March 2018

Postby gas56 » March 3rd, 2018, 4:57 pm

BnB......... Boring

Yep! Big word there,,.... but nobody listens to it except for me.
That is a gamebreaker!
I agree with it 110%

I read an article on bears,.. now it works just as it does in the game...................... Really??? :roll:

What about all the IRL Grizzly bears that are shot at as little as 10 yards away.
In the game they want to run over the next mountain when they get spooked and they get spooked pretty easy.
I started to put together real life hunting videos to show how possible it is to get close to even world record boone & crocket shot big Male Grizzlies,... Grizzly Behavior, and Grizzly attacks.
But then I changed my mind 'cuz nobody wants to hear only what they want to hear anyways, so it would have been just a waste of time.
So forget about it.
And rant about your boring game bears some more when there is nobody else to listen to it!
Somebody must have eaten their hunting vitamins to boast out an article of such tremendous knowledge.
Last edited by gas56 on March 3rd, 2018, 5:58 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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1Al
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Re: Status Update - 1st March 2018

Postby 1Al » March 3rd, 2018, 5:47 pm

Very, very boring bears.
Spoiler:


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TreeKiwi
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Re: Status Update - 1st March 2018

Postby TreeKiwi » March 3rd, 2018, 5:51 pm

1Al wrote:
HunterVK wrote:
TreeKiwi wrote:
I am happy to go and have a look for some big ones :) I have never shot a trophy one yet. These were ones I came across, I was not actively hunting them. All big animals in the game are more spooky as well, just worth mentioning.

yes they R spooky but is bored an no fun trackin 1h RT big bear and than give up because he never stop even if u all time crouching with scent eliminator.. On other side u cann easily kill unrealistic number of small bears . Here's example https://www.thehunter.com/#profile/hunt ... n/79959978

Exactly. Another big issue with GB males is that they are scared at 150m and then never stop to flee, I saw tracks after hundreds of meters in crouch mode, and they were always in fleeing mode. Once for istance, I started the game from tent, next to that I have a tower, as soon as I climbed the tower, I saw with binoculars a fleeing big grizzly, I guess a male, it was at 215 mt. It's basically impossible to hunt them. Then I've been there to get close few male grizzlies, but it is rather random.


When was the last time you went out and hunted them? That was like that before the fix, but as you can see in the stream the other day you can get close to them easy now.
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DanthemanBoone
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Re: Status Update - 1st March 2018

Postby DanthemanBoone » March 3rd, 2018, 6:05 pm

The cause and solution is staring E.W right in the face.
You had a situation with the grizzlies that most people were happy with.
You had a situation with the polar bears that most people were happy with.

Now because of changes, bugs or fixes that dont work, you have a situation that most people are not happy with.

It is an absolute nonsense to reach out and say that the current situation is more realistic, when E.W. has consistently made changes to weapons (permitted species and weapon effectiveness), animal health and behaviors ... that moved the game away from realism, in order to satisfy god only knows what objective they had in mind.

Realism is important in some areas and poetic licence is totally acceptable in others. Unfortunately E.W. has managed to reverse the order of application too many times.

People play computer games to relax and enjoy. Frustrating your consumers is counterproductive.
Listen to what your customers have to say and act upon it.

( If you go out in the woods today , you better not go alone.
Its lovely out in the woods today, but better to stay at home.)
Old hunters never die.They just sit around the campfires and tell the biggest lies.
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J_Birdman
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Re: Status Update - 1st March 2018

Postby J_Birdman » March 3rd, 2018, 7:42 pm

TreeKiwi wrote:
1Al wrote:
HunterVK wrote:yes they R spooky but is bored an no fun trackin 1h RT big bear and than give up because he never stop even if u all time crouching with scent eliminator.. On other side u cann easily kill unrealistic number of small bears . Here's example https://www.thehunter.com/#profile/hunt ... n/79959978

Exactly. Another big issue with GB males is that they are scared at 150m and then never stop to flee, I saw tracks after hundreds of meters in crouch mode, and they were always in fleeing mode. Once for istance, I started the game from tent, next to that I have a tower, as soon as I climbed the tower, I saw with binoculars a fleeing big grizzly, I guess a male, it was at 215 mt. It's basically impossible to hunt them. Then I've been there to get close few male grizzlies, but it is rather random.


When was the last time you went out and hunted them? That was like that before the fix, but as you can see in the stream the other day you can get close to them easy now.

Were they male or female? What weapons were used? What was the range of your shots? Did you chance upon them? Did you find tracks and hunt them down close? Did you sight them long distance and hunt them down close? Were they coming toward you or walking away? Serious questions, I'm trying to learn what I can from others since they were adjusted.

I immediately stopped hunting grizzlies when they broke, around the release of Piccabeen Bay, and have attempted to hunt exactly one(1) male grizzly since then, about two weeks ago. I found a nice set of tracks and set out for him, tracked him with all my usual quiet, camo'd and scentless tact, had multiple spooks, and never placed eyes on him before giving up after over an hour. The issue for me with grizzlies has always been their very fast roam speed, in conjunction with their extremely infrequent rest periods, in conjunction with their extremely short rest period duration. But back then they were often easy to approach, I'd say I could walk up to average to large sized males and they'd stand ground about 50%/spook 50% of the time. I was perfectly happy with those odds, because the reward of an easy kill was nicely countered by the very high cost of spooking it away. I say "very high cost of spooking" because, for me, those that spooked were more prone to re-spooking, and their very fast roam speed and extremely infrequent and extremely short resting periods were off the charts. Basically once I was behind my grizzlies, trying to track them down/catch up to them within distance of my next shot was pretty impossible not to mention verrry time-consuming. If I managed to steer them into more open ground in their very sight-limited habitat, I considered myself as blessed lucky. I'm not the greatest hunter of all time, I've been humbled in this game as much as the next player, but grizzly AI skittishness aside, you give me an animal that I can gain even just a little bit of ground on, even just a little bit at a time with crouch-walking, and I'll get that animal nine times out of ten. Now, give me an animal that I can never gain ground on with a crouch-walk, and I might get that animal five times out of ten, based on luck in the form of a patch of open enough terrain or a bear turn-around. Then, give me an animal that I can never gain ground on with a crouch-walk, toss in a handful of really skittish AI, and I'll be lucky to get that animal one time out of ten, and it will be purely luck-based, and it will take farrr more time than I'm willing to invest unless it was the biggest griz I ever saw. This to me is not fun, and a waste of time, and sad to see such a fun animal go to waste. I should add that I also stopped hunting polar bears when the bug reports started flowing, and I've yet to re-visit them once.

So, has grizzly roam speed changed/been adjusted to a bit slower now since first release? Have their rest periods gotten more frequent since first release? Have their rest periods gotten longer in duration since first release? Again, serious questions.

TreeKiwi wrote:Grizzlies stalking humans is almost unheard of guys. Attacks are usually because they were startled or they are protecting their young. So to implement your suggested idea would be unlikely.

TreeKiwi wrote:
1Al wrote:
TreeKiwi wrote:I did not say anything about polar bears, it was in reference to Grizzly bears. People starting to talk about behaviors that are not a common trait for them. I went live and shot two on Thursday with bows, I really do not see the problem with them.

Surely for grizzly males to have a radar, is not a common trait of bears :mrgreen:


You can watch the last live EW stream if you like, I shot two with a bow and they had no idea I was there. I am not sure how you are hunting, but you might want to think about trying to be more sneaky, so you can get closer to them. Grizzly Bears are actually very alert and will try and avoid humans.
Here is a LINK with a little information about them, the part you might like to read is the 'Interactions with humans'. It states there "Mothers defending cubs are the most prone to attacking, and are responsible for 70% of humans killed by grizzlies." also it states "Grizzly bears normally avoid contact with people. In spite of their obvious physical advantage they rarely actively hunt humans".

How the Grizzlies are now are true to life and are functioning properly. As you saw in Ron's video the other night, they will still attack you if they are startled.

I hope this clears up your thoughts around Grizzly Bears.

TK

TreeKiwi wrote:
BucksNBuffalo wrote:
TreeKiwi wrote:I did not say anything about polar bears, it was in reference to Grizzly bears. People starting to talk about behaviors that are not a common trait for them. I went live and shot two on Thursday with bows, I really do not see the problem with them.

I know this, my brother. I brought up the Polar Bears because I have no real problems with the Grizzlies. My only thing about the Grizzlies is that it’s only the small females that attack, and the males all run like hell which certainly isn’t right but it’s nowhere near as wrong as the Polar Bear is. The Polar Bear in game is the exact opposite of what it should be, when it should be the most dangerous animal in the game. And it makes it virtually worthless to hunt because they do not spawn in great numbers as it is. Aggressive Polar Bears, as they should be, would really justify the low numbers.


Well if you read the link. It says that IF they do attack, it is mostly (70% of all attacks) always females who are defending their cubs, so if it is a higher percentage of females attacking, considering we do not even have cubs in the game. I would say that is pretty accurate.

I have actually just spent the last hour reading about Polar Bears as well, here are some quotes straight from the Wiki article.
"Unlike brown bears, polar bears are not territorial. Although stereotyped as being voraciously aggressive, they are normally cautious in confrontations, and often choose to escape rather than fight.[73] Satiated polar bears rarely attack humans unless severely provoked." and then "However, due to their lack of prior human interaction, hungry polar bears are extremely unpredictable, fearless towards people and are known to kill and sometimes eat humans"

So the second highlighted quote arguably helps you more than me, accept that it states that HUNGRY polar bears are extremely unpredictable. I do not imagine there is a food shortage in the EHR, Doc would not allow that ;) . So after reading more about both Grizzlies and Polar bear it has re confirmed that their behaviour now is actually pretty spot on!

Good debate non the less.

TreeKiwi wrote:
HunterVK wrote:
TreeKiwi wrote:
You can watch the last live EW stream if you like, I shot two with a bow and they had no idea I was there. I am not sure how you are hunting, but you might want to think about trying to be more sneaky, so you can get closer to them. Grizzly Bears are actually very alert and will try and avoid humans.
Here is a LINK with a little information about them, the part you might like to read is the 'Interactions with humans'. It states there "Mothers defending cubs are the most prone to attacking, and are responsible for 70% of humans killed by grizzlies." also it states "Grizzly bears normally avoid contact with people. In spite of their obvious physical advantage they rarely actively hunt humans".

How the Grizzlies are now are true to life and are functioning properly. As you saw in Ron's video the other night, they will still attack you if they are startled.

I hope this clears up your thoughts around Grizzly Bears.

TK

TK, u killed 2 small bears , that's point. Only small bears attacking and not spook easy. But big ones is almost impossible to hunt in woods.. U cann hope only that he will run on open so u cann shoot at him from more than 150m.


I am happy to go and have a look for some big ones :) I have never shot a trophy one yet. These were ones I came across, I was not actively hunting them. All big animals in the game are more spooky as well, just worth mentioning.

I'm not sure I understand this. Now, after all this time, you guys decide to really hype up the realism factor and choose one animal for it? Is this a new direction for EW since Alena's departure? If so, why wasn't it truly hyped up and announced when you guys first "fixed" at the exact same time you released Piccabeen Bay instead of letting the playerbase discover it for themselves and subsequently flood the forums and your support staff with bug reports? Also if so, why hasn't as much realism hype been put into the four new animals in Piccabeen Bay?(honestly, have you seen the SIZE of the water buffalo horns? every other male WB I see has a rack the size of the greatest and most impressive WB rack ever caught on camera) If not, then what makes the grizzlies so special that you are touting the realism factor for them and them alone? What about the fun and rewarding gameplay factor, should we prepare to expect less of this for future animals? And now, after all that's been said and done since both bears broke, why are players seeing yet another change in their behavior with the females being the ones to stand ground while the males are still reportedly still as skittish as they became after the Piccabeen Bay release? All in all, none of this adds up for me. I'm still not convinced that you guys have any sort of handle on the grizzlies, or the polar bears. If I'm right about this, my bad, please understand how easy it is/has been to be confused and discouraged by all these bear matters. If I'm wrong, please provide some proof of it, please re-adjust the grizzlies back to where they were before Piccabeen Bay for a period of one week to let us see and compare. Personally, I would make a vow to hunt grizzlies solely for that entire week, three hours a day real-time, in order to re-evaluate my thoughts on the current "realism-drenched" grizzlies. Thanks.
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J_Birdman
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Re: Status Update - 1st March 2018

Postby J_Birdman » March 3rd, 2018, 7:58 pm

Oh also, before I forget, could you EW please also provide us with some numbers? I'm really curious to know total Grizzly Bear harvests PRE-Piccabeen Release breakage and/or secret bear adjustments vs. total Grizzly Bear harvests POST-Piccabeen release breakage and/or secret bear adjustments(i say "and/or" because it's still confusing and I'm still not sure which came first). That would be sweet!
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DanthemanBoone
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Re: Status Update - 1st March 2018

Postby DanthemanBoone » March 3rd, 2018, 9:45 pm

Ok . What can I say.
Went to T.G.T. to see what all the (grizzling) was about.
I haven't hunted Grizzlies for about three months.
10 minutes in found male grizzly tracks.
Tracked, got charged - shot - killed and harvested the same male 5 min later in thick pines. Visibility no more than 50 metres.

Honestly no more difficult than hunting Sambhur without scent attractant.
Which is not to say i feel any need to withdraw my previous observations.

https://www.thehunter.com/#profile/dant ... /594519359

Mind you, I did need a change of underwear.
Old hunters never die.They just sit around the campfires and tell the biggest lies.
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Seifer
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Re: Status Update - 1st March 2018

Postby Seifer » March 4th, 2018, 12:08 am

I started a hunt on TgT. I harvested 5 grizzlies, 4 of them being female. My method was the same for all of them. The females were relatively easy to get close to. 3 of the 4 were from under 15m. I hunted them by walking (not running) around until I found some tracks or heard audio clues. While stalking them the females stopped more frequently for longer while my lone male barely stopped at all. I was able to close on the male just by crouching. He charged me at around 40m but I've been closer than that to other males. I stalked him for a little while because of the terrain. I wanted to get eyes on before he charged me. Point is I was able to get close enough without too much effort for every bear to charge me. None fled.

Image
I got within 8m of this female before she charged me.

Image
Got this one from under 40m.
Spoiler:


Don't mind me, I'm just thinking out loud ;) Mike (Seifer210) ♉

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