Great Debate: Realism vs. fun

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Suriel
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Re: Great Debate: Realism vs. fun

Postby Suriel » June 11th, 2015, 6:39 pm

It can never be the real thing.

What makes games like theHunter great is that they are realistic enough in some aspects to "feel real". But at the same time they are fun enough to not make hunting feel like a chore.

On a real hunting trip, it doesn't feel like a chore, because you are in the great outdoors. You are excited & attentive, even when all you do is try to stay fairly motionless in the same spot for hours.

A computer game cannot give you the outdoors. It must be exciting, it must be challenging & immediate.

The two opening posts pretty much said the same thing. I'd not vote on them at any time. The mixture in theHunter is well done, in my opinion.
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Knut
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Re: Great Debate: Realism vs. fun

Postby Knut » June 11th, 2015, 9:15 pm

DHRifleman wrote:But the game already has this based on the score of the animals you go after because of the higher AI.

Which is exactly what I was supporting above. Whether based on the difficulty of higher scores or difficulty and diversity in hunting different species is kind of the same concept.


DHRifleman wrote:Also it has this in the comps based on amount of kills for that species,

True. I always forget about the comps. They're in my eyes not a thing that forms the core concept of the game, but something to cater the gaming crowd.
I think balancing or segregating the competitions is an entirely different and mainly independent topic. That's not really an issue of realism or fun (although competing for sure is fun for some, no doubt)

Comps are for me one of these things that are a necessary and good compromise in making this hunting game a game. Because comps are surely nothing really hunting related. Yet, they don't really conflict the realism of the game for me, so if they make others happy, I guess it's live and let live... :D
“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'" ― Isaac Asimov
bobbyvalentino1
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Re: Great Debate: Realism vs. fun

Postby bobbyvalentino1 » June 11th, 2015, 11:26 pm

I have managed to stick around this game for about 3 or 4 years now religiously paying my membership when its due and getting all the new goodies when they come about, and I know there are still a lot of the older folks that where here when this game first came about and started to take off that have seen this grow like a snowball running down hill.

I'm commenting today from my point of view on this.

What the fellas debated over both make perfect sense, there has to be a balance between the two though.

The devs made this game and it is realistic in many ways and far fetched from the truth in others, but it in itself is just a game.

Its not real life, it for me is an escape from reality.


You can walk around in the woods shoot deer or whatever the heck you want, you can take pictures, the views in this game are more then breath taking at times.

Running up on a trophy animal is almost as good as running up on the real thing in real life, I have honest as can be got the shakes from walking up on a monster mule deer on this game just like in real life.

Then you have the not so real stuff like said, you don't have to run to the bathroom every time the wind blows, you don't have bag limits or restrictions.

Like today you only hunt does cause there are not enough bucks running around or the goose you shoot has to be a certain size for you to take it.



All of the things in this game come together really well you can sit down at your computer and have a fun time doing something that is realistic enough that it excites the mind like you were really there.

You can run around wide open and never get tired or have to sit down a while cause you twisted your ankle or tripped over something.

There is only so far that the devs can take this realism though, then they have to start thinking realistically about how the game itself is going to react to the changes they have made.

No simulator in the world is a perfect aspect of realism even down to the flight sims the military use to train there pilots.

They are no more than mere games themselves used like said to train the young pilots minds into being able to react to a situation when it arises so that things become instinct instead of them having to be thrown into the thick of it with no training or preparedness.

On that note they can change the weather or how the plane reacts or if an engine is going to fail ten minutes into flight such as that is where the realism leaves out and the devs take over.


The rabbits on this game for example are way oversized but they have to be so that they can be seen properly.

The foxes are these beautiful magnificent creatures that come roaming out the woods instead of like you would see them.

In real life foxes slink about and are a lot of the times never ever seen. they are so easy to hunt on this game but so many folks still have trouble with them.

If you hunted fox in real life you would have a hard time trying to track one down without a pack of hunting dogs.


The animals look real, they look like they belong to the maps they are on.

They somewhat simulate what would be expected of real life animals, but I tell you this you shoot a deer in real life and expect it to run in as straight a line as the animals do on here then you are kidding yourself.

I have shot deer in real life that before death have wedged themselves in under big rock ledges or right up in the middle of brush piles as deep as they could get into them and have run in every direction known to man before I found them.

Now you put that into the hunter and how many of you guys even the higher ranking ones that have been here forever and have the animals patterns down in your head would find the trophies

you kill if they ran over hill and dale, and ran left right and everything in between, or ran for a half mile with no blood trail at all.

just a footprint every now and then or a broke twig or rub on a occasional tree it would make the game impossible at the least.


The devs need to put as much realism as they can into this when they make the animals and reserves as far as the way the animal looks, walks, sounds and behaves.

Take the common reality of these things and run with them but still yet leave it a game we can come to and have fun and challenge ourselves at without wanting to give up because we are never any good at it.

I know for sure if this game were a gallery game like the cabelas series of games I would have quit it in the first few months of playing it.

Those games get old there is only so much you can do on them.

You can walk into the hunter every day for a year and never do the same thing twice unless you chose to.

It is what makes open world games the beauty that they are.


The way it stands who the heck thought we would be able to hunt kangaroos.

Really and truly and who would have thought right now you would have your own hunting dog standing beside you that you can train on top of that.

That is realistic behavior but it doesn't take it to far in making you have to buy food for the dog or clean up poo those are the unrealistic and unneeded things in the game.

The guys on call of duty n such like that are like some on here that take things way to far for it being a game.


If you guys want to be in a realistic situation then go out and go hunting, just like the call of duty folks if your that die hard to want to see real life action then go sign up for the army.

If you want to sit down and have some fun amongst good people then strap in and play the hunter and leave the reality of the whole thing to the developers.

Give them some encouragement for making one of the best dang hunting games in history and suggest to them things you would like to see.

Keep there heads filled with ideas.

Just leave off the whole deal of running them down cause a simulated animal doesn't quite look right or its behavior doesn't pattern what you see in the real world.

There is still only so much they can do.


Just imagine what this game would be if you logged in, got in session and all the animals just magically ran up to you.

You didn't have to go find them and stalk them, they just came running, begging for you to shoot them.

Imagine if 3000 geese flew over head and you had so many targets to shoot at that you ran out of bullets before you could shoot at hardly any of em.

Imagine if they were all trophies that every animal you shot was going to be bigger then the last, and you knew this was going to happen how long would it be before the devs ran out of ideas.

You would be so bored of the game that you would just give up playing cause it takes no effort to do anything or for you to be good at it.


Either way I have stood on my little soap box enough I'm going to go shoot some ducks and let my new doggy fetch em for me.

Both sides of this argument could and will fight for years over what is more important.

When the important thing here is that there is balance between the two, and that everyone doesn't take realism out of context for what it really is in the gaming world.

It is real to a point that its acceptable, and make believe where it counts to keep it from being a burden on the player.

In all of this with the two sides arguing about there topics everyone reading this still plays and enjoys the hunter.

Even the ones who complain about the ones who are complaining.

We all still play and we haven't gave up the ghost on this game so play on folks.


There hopefully this is a little better. I appreciate you moderators that took time to straighten this a little. I had a odd night last night and didn't get to do anything to fix this last night.
Last edited by bobbyvalentino1 on June 12th, 2015, 7:53 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Sqwee
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Re: Great Debate: Realism vs. fun

Postby Sqwee » June 11th, 2015, 11:29 pm

stancomputerhunter wrote:@ Squee..

I can tell you, I'm not a hunter IRL, but I will never forget the sight of that Albino Red Deer Stag crossing the river towards me. Or the Melanistic one, or the 194 Blacktail, or the 1109 Feral Hog, or the 228 Moose with 18 points, or the 266 Ibex, or the 391 Elk that kept me out of the 400 club, or the 86 Red Kangaroo, which was the very first Roo I ever shot. Or the huge NT WT that I happened upon just a couple of days ago. I vividly remember every one...because I'm not a real life hunter, and this is my only opportunity to get close. Its fun..but for me it will never get any more real.


First of all, congrats on those awesome kills! But that's exactly my point. You remember those because they're rare and a real achievement when you get kills like those. You know you've accomplished something. And when you're closing in on those types of trophies, you're excited, nervous, adrenaline pumped, and feel a sense of "I can't mess this up." When you get them on the ground, it's amazing and you don't forget those. That is EXACTLY the experience that this game should be striving to give!

I think a lot of people either didn't read my posts or misread them. I never said the game isn't capable of that experience. Like I said, I have many memorable hunts from when I first started. And some of my trophy kills. If the game wasn't capable of those experiences, I would have given it up long ago. This IS a great game. (Side note: I just had a fantastic time hunting with my male chocolate retriever, Ned [named after Eddard Stark. ;)], for the first time.).

A point that is frequently brought up on the other side of the debate is that you can make the game harder on yourself by only pursuing higher-scoring animals. This is true. Most of the time, that's what I do. My point is that nowadays, I feel that I have to wade through a lot of immersion-breaking, unrealistic things to get to those moments. I would just like it a little closer to real life hunting, is all. I don't know. I realize that I am one of the few who want it extremely difficult and realistic; I don't expect them to change it just for me. But I am passionate about the game and what would make me happy, and this is the perfect thread to express that.
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insub
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Re: Great Debate: Realism vs. fun

Postby insub » June 12th, 2015, 12:47 am

i keep trying to read but all this ego keeps getting in the way... HARDCORE MODE YEAH!!!!! im a man... a mans man... im the best because i do it the right way
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Re: Great Debate: Realism vs. fun

Postby Knut » June 12th, 2015, 5:01 am

bobbyvalentino1 wrote:I have managed to stick around this game [...]

Sorry, mate, I don't want to offend you.

But your text is incredibly hard to read. I got lost trying to find the line I was reading several times and finally gave up.

When one writes a long text for on-screen reading, it is very important that this text is structured into paragraphs with line spacing in between, maybe even with headers interspersed to allow the eye to cling to some structures. Otherwise it is really hard to read.
It also helps to logically structure the content and subdivide the single points one wants to make.

Because in the end, one writes a text because one wants to bring some points across to the readers. So it's also in your own interest to make a text easily readable.
“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'" ― Isaac Asimov
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Re: Great Debate: Realism vs. fun

Postby Sqwee » June 12th, 2015, 9:49 am

insub wrote:i keep trying to read but all this ego keeps getting in the way... HARDCORE MODE YEAH!!!!! im a man... a mans man... im the best because i do it the right way


Dude, what?
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Flanker305
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Re: Great Debate: Realism vs. fun

Postby Flanker305 » June 12th, 2015, 12:20 pm

Knut wrote:
bobbyvalentino1 wrote:I have managed to stick around this game [...]

Sorry, mate, I don't want to offend you.

But your text is incredibly hard to read. I got lost trying to find the line I was reading several times and finally gave up.

When one writes a long text for on-screen reading, it is very important that this text is structured into paragraphs with line spacing in between, maybe even with headers interspersed to allow the eye to cling to some structures. Otherwise it is really hard to read.
It also helps to logically structure the content and subdivide the single points one wants to make.

Because in the end, one writes a text because one wants to bring some points across to the readers. So it's also in your own interest to make a text easily readable.
Very true, Knut.
Therefor I threw quite a few 'enters' in bobbyvalentino1's post, I hope it makes a difference.
I did this to increase the readability, so the spaces might not all be on the appropriate points. ;)
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stancomputerhunter
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Re: Great Debate: Realism vs. fun

Postby stancomputerhunter » June 12th, 2015, 1:15 pm

Sqwee wrote:
stancomputerhunter wrote:@ Squee..

I can tell you, I'm not a hunter IRL, but I will never forget the sight of that Albino Red Deer Stag crossing the river towards me. Or the Melanistic one, or the 194 Blacktail, or the 1109 Feral Hog, or the 228 Moose with 18 points, or the 266 Ibex, or the 391 Elk that kept me out of the 400 club, or the 86 Red Kangaroo, which was the very first Roo I ever shot. Or the huge NT WT that I happened upon just a couple of days ago. I vividly remember every one...because I'm not a real life hunter, and this is my only opportunity to get close. Its fun..but for me it will never get any more real.


First of all, congrats on those awesome kills! But that's exactly my point. You remember those because they're rare and a real achievement when you get kills like those. You know you've accomplished something. And when you're closing in on those types of trophies, you're excited, nervous, adrenaline pumped, and feel a sense of "I can't mess this up." When you get them on the ground, it's amazing and you don't forget those. That is EXACTLY the experience that this game should be striving to give!

I think a lot of people either didn't read my posts or misread them. I never said the game isn't capable of that experience. Like I said, I have many memorable hunts from when I first started. And some of my trophy kills. If the game wasn't capable of those experiences, I would have given it up long ago. This IS a great game. (Side note: I just had a fantastic time hunting with my male chocolate retriever, Ned [named after Eddard Stark. ;)], for the first time.).

A point that is frequently brought up on the other side of the debate is that you can make the game harder on yourself by only pursuing higher-scoring animals. This is true. Most of the time, that's what I do. My point is that nowadays, I feel that I have to wade through a lot of immersion-breaking, unrealistic things to get to those moments. I would just like it a little closer to real life hunting, is all. I don't know. I realize that I am one of the few who want it extremely difficult and realistic; I don't expect them to change it just for me. But I am passionate about the game and what would make me happy, and this is the perfect thread to express that.


Thank you. I wasn't bragging...I have no right to....there are hundreds of better scores every day. What I was trying to say is that to me, a non real life hunter, the randomness of those harvests are what makes me come back again and again. They ARE my hunting experience. I sure wouldn't want to find one every hunt; that wouldn't be real or fun...well, except for a NT Blacktail right now. :lol:


Image Rares: 79 NTs: 23
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Re: Great Debate: Realism vs. fun

Postby ChrisMK72 » June 12th, 2015, 1:19 pm

Flanker305 wrote:Therefor I threw quite a few 'enters' in bobbyvalentino1's post, I hope it makes a difference.


Still a "wall of text", but much better to read now. ;-)

And what about the debate Realism vs. fun ?
I would say both ! :-)

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