Why theHunter simply will not last.

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wombatvvv
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Re: Why theHunter simply will not last.

Post by wombatvvv »

Personally I don't have a problem with the payment model. People see it in two different ways. Some think they are "entitled" to everything the game offers. All 8 years of development and updates and improvements for a "fair price". I can understand that. But personally, I see a free game that you can pay to expand as little or as much as you want. Some see all the stuff they don't have. Others see the great stuff they do have.

I'm actually disappointed to hear the new COTW is adopting a different payment system.

Pay-for-once games simply do not get the same kind of attention from the developers for almost-a-decade. What happens is you end up with something like the NBA2K franchise. They release a new game every single year that is basically a moderate update of the previous one. That annoys me faaaaar more than the model that theHunter uses (and iRacing, for example).

theHunter is not about "getting all the stuff in the game". That's not the point. You don't even need to do that. You buy what you want to have. You're not entitled to have "everything" just because you bought a membership. You might spend $500+ on a game like this over 8 years. You could also spend $500+ on 8 separate games that are just updates over the previous year's version ... and as soon as the new version comes out, the game you bought last year is suddenly "obsolete".
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Tanngnjostr
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Re: Why theHunter simply will not last.

Post by Tanngnjostr »

wombatvvv wrote:I'm actually disappointed to hear the new COTW is adopting a different payment system.
I agree very much, wombatvvv! I played the beta of CotW and while I think it needs a few changes regarding game balance, I think it could become a really good hunting game (Hawkeye made some good points in the CotW subforum). What makes me doubt that CotW is going to become the game I would love it to become is the fact that it will be a one-time purchase. Even with occasional DLC, I doubt that it can generate enough money in the long run to justify further investment of development resources.

So I'm actually happy about the payment model of tH:Classic because I'm convinced it only works this way. But how can you argue with people that join the forum, quickly post the ultimate business model for a game that's been running for years... and then vanish into oblivion... joined Nov 6th, 4:43 pm, last active Nov 6th, 7:11 pm. :roll:
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BucksNBuffalo
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Re: Why theHunter simply will not last.

Post by BucksNBuffalo »

I never pay any attention to these type of threads Marc. Here are some wise words from an old vet: Over the years, I have seen these types of threads pop up constantly, and are always the same. There is always some random person out there who has the ultimate plan for EW and what they should do with their game. But here is the gist of it. After all of these ultimate business models made up by these savvy businessmen that sit here and write up these threads, what has changed? Nothing to very little. Know why? Because EW is not going to change their business model as it is working for them. Sure, we may not like it at times, but it's been the same for 8 years now and the player base keeps growing. So obviously something is working, right? ;)
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walt133
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Re: Why theHunter simply will not last.

Post by walt133 »

Well I feel, that as long as the devs can keep making new developments and animals and reserves they will get my money. The hunter COTW is a one time purchase, and if you can keep making steady money with your other game why not? Just my opinion and I could be completely wrong. Walster
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chinook2835
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Re: Why theHunter simply will not last.

Post by chinook2835 »

drgloom wrote:At some point, a couple developers are going to look at this game and see the size of the community and realize they can offer something better at a much better price. This is why the game won't sustain its current model.

"theHunter" has the luxury of currently cornering this market. Much like FarmingSimulator and it has resulted in lack luster game development that people think is good only because they have no other options which then allows the game to exploit the paying customer and offer the bare minimum in return. It's not anywhere it should be and sure as hell not worth $500+.

$500. That's what it would cost JUST to buy the various guns and sights. Just that. I didn't take the time to add up the rest of the categories in the shop but I'm assuming it comes out to about $1000 or more. Now I don't know about you guys but I can't think of any game, ever, that I'd pay $1000 for upfront to fully experience. Or where I needed to drop $5 here and $5 there all the time to get the full experience while also paying a monthly subscription.

How can this game succeed and become what we want it to become? Let's look at games like World of Tanks or Knights of the Old Republic. What these games have done is built long term investment from its fans while ALSO making itself as accessible to as many people as it can. Sure this game has some long term investment from die hard fans who've dropped several hundred dollars into it and almost feel an obligation to play it. But that's not the average person. And that's not the type of dedication you want.

A model for success

I'm going to map out a couple very simple pay structure implements that would change this game completely and immediately increase the amount of players and its long term viability. It's kind of based on World of Tanks which has very reasonable pay wall.

Reserves
- All common reserves are accessible to everyone, whether they're a subscriber or not. (Giving the player "freedom to explore" at all times)
- Special reserves (opportunity to hunt rare game, like the real life lottery system, the opportunity to hunt these reserves solo or with other hunters comes from accumulated experience points)

Experience System (I remember my grandpa starting me of with a .20 gauge and shooting rabbits/pheasant/squirrel - Not a .44 magnum and bear hunting. My point is...)
- Equipment(all shop items) availability is tied to experience and purchased with in game currency. This makes players want to play more. Better equipment is tied to play time.
- Some special equipment still exists like rare guns and other equipment that can only be purchased with $$$ giving players the edge during competitions.
- Experience is gained at a much higher rate if the player has a monthly subscription. (THIS IS KEY) Most people are willing to drop $15/month on a game they like and this feeds back into equipment being tied to experience and play time. Now you're starting to build a long term following and not relying on these instant $5 purchases.
- Having the subscription numbers gives you the ability to raise more capital and improve the development of the game.
- Options to use experience points on player abilities. (Tracking, endurance, steadiness, etc) Players can use a certain amount of experience points to increase the global skill of their hunter OR like I said above use experience to unlock new equipment. The player needing to decide what's more important.
- Game permits/tags granted at certain experience levels

Game Currency
- Having its own in game currency like it already has is a good idea but it should be expanded...
- Small amount of currency rewarded for each legal kill, the more points the more coin, the more rare the game, the more coin.
- Currency rewarded for time spent hunting on a single map in multiplayer.(improving multiplayer play)
- Currency deducted for hunting illegally.
- Currency can still be purchased with $$$ to immediately buy the rare weapons or buy something that's been unlocked through experience but the player lacks funds to buy the unlock.

Now these are just a few examples but what I've described is a system that increases the player base. Has an experience system so the rare game, the rare reserves, high level equipment can ONLY be achieved through play time, which creates dedication, goals and just fun working towards unlocks through missions and general hunting. A system that gives a good argument as to why someone should pay $15/month because experience/currency will be gained faster. A system that allows people to still buy things instantly with $$$ if they so choose. A system similar to this is what most successful F2P games have been doing.

I'm not going to get into design and interface and game choices and vehicles and mechanics and all of that that but it obviously could be much much much better. Just the map designs alone could be created by most hobbyists in 1-2 weeks with better immersion, detail and ambiance.

I get that I'm just some random guy on your forum and what do I know. You're addicted to the quick sales, I get it. But you're only making money because people have no other options. I'm telling you, once some developers figure out there is an opportunity here they'll make a more immersive world with better functionality and a pay structure done correct, "theHunter" and its community will go down the toilet overnight.


I agreee with you,that at any time acompany can get there mind on a hunting simulator like this and make it way better then the hunter classic,but I don't see anyone doing that just for the straight fact that a lot of media and people now a days thing that hunting is bad and cruel and also that their just isn't a big anough fan base to spend some money and make a good game (which I think there is idk) another company with the right ideas could make a killer hunting gane(I made a post on "other games and tech talk"about a hunting game I'd like to play)and not that this game isn't good it's great but could be made a lot better
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wombatvvv
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Re: Why theHunter simply will not last.

Post by wombatvvv »

I don't think it's hunting that "normal" people (haha!) think is bad ... more trophy hunting ... not even trophy hunting. Basically just killing animals only "for a rush". Shooting out the window of a pick-up truck while smashing down beers and leaving a dozen dead bodies lying in the field. I think that's bad too. But that's not what hunters do. Not most of them anyway. It's a matter of public non-hunter ignorance.

I wish they could work that into the game a bit more. It's kind of the point of a previous thread I made about using the animals that you kill somehow. But I understand it's pretty hard to do that without actually getting the opposite effect and encouraging mass animal slaughter in order to "grind up" money or whatever. Of course there's already an element of that.

I reckon Cabella is going about it the wrong way anyway. I watched a trailer for their latest hunting game. There was a lot of whooping and "yeeeha - you smoked him!" type of stuff going on. I prefer the Steve Rinella approach and attitude to hunting. That's attitude and atmosphere I believe they should be promoting in the game. Somehow. Kind of like "hard core hunting" in remote regions.
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Margarita888
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Re: Why theHunter simply will not last.

Post by Margarita888 »

wombatvvv wrote:I watched a trailer for their latest hunting game. There was a lot of whooping and "yeeeha - you smoked him!" type of stuff going on.
Man I hate that in Cabela's games so much! One of the main reason I don't play them at all.
I come from a huntign culture where game animals are highly respected, even after death, so that kind fo attitude is realy off puting.

And those god awful organ xray bullet cams.
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Margarita, EHR hunter since 2012.
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wombatvvv
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Re: Why theHunter simply will not last.

Post by wombatvvv »

Margarita888 wrote:
wombatvvv wrote:I watched a trailer for their latest hunting game. There was a lot of whooping and "yeeeha - you smoked him!" type of stuff going on.
Man I hate that in Cabela's games so much! One of the main reason I don't play them at all.
I come from a huntign culture where game animals are highly respected, even after death, so that kind fo attitude is realy off puting.

And those god awful organ xray bullet cams.
100% with you. Really off putting and shows they don't know their target audience beyond a stereotype too. Nothing wrong with being thrilled with a good hunt mind you. But every single hunter I know is very respectful. Maybe it's just my circles though.
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Re: Why theHunter simply will not last.

Post by AngryBadger »

I think most people who hunt ethically to begin with, are respectful of nature and the animals. Of course there is an adrenaline rush when you shoot something, that's quite normal, so I can understand someone shouting out or whatever, but like anything, it can go too far. The Cabela's games just seem to be the stereotype of hunters that the anti hunting brigade uses all the time.
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Deconstructed
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Re: Why theHunter simply will not last.

Post by Deconstructed »

AngryBadger wrote:I think most people who hunt ethically to begin with, are respectful of nature and the animals. Of course there is an adrenaline rush when you shoot something, that's quite normal, so I can understand someone shouting out or whatever, but like anything, it can go too far. The Cabela's games just seem to be the stereotype of hunters that the anti hunting brigade uses all the time.
Off on a bit of a tangent from the original topic so with that in mind, game will not last, pretty silly topic for a game that has been going almost a decade.

On the quote, actual real life fisherman (woman) and hunters are the people the people mainly active in conservation from my experience. Plenty of non fishers/hunters who may talk the talk but not so much for walking the walk.
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