Need advice (LONG POST)

[xendoshi]

Greetings all!

I was wanting to get some input from those of you who have experience, preferably around NW Arkansas, or other areas that are forest like it.
Going to be a little long as going to give you a history and the reason I am asking for advice.

My Hunting History :

In 2014 I got my first doe! YAAY!, First bullet was lung and grazed the heart, shattered her shoulder blade, she sat for a moment then tried to run the way she came
thus exposing the other side, So I aimed for her lungs, hit her in the head. . . don't know how I hit her in the head but I did. . . but at least she went down quick.
Thank's to the hunter, I knew where to place the shot, what angles I should and shouldn't take a shot, you know, the basics.
So anyhow, got my first deer with my friends 30-06 bolt action, I was happy that I got a doe, but What I learned is this, I don't like bolt actions.
I had practiced with the same Rifle I used about 2 weeks prior (first time I ever shot a firearm (had lots of bb guns but don't count in my book))
and had a hard time using the action, another friend was there with his .270 lever and I was able to master the cycling of rounds pretty quick,
but I didn't like it cause for me the .270 hurt vs the 30-06 that I had just fired, but perhaps since it was the first time firing firearms,
perhaps I wasn't holding it right who knows. . . . anyhow opted to use the 30-06.


So 2015 come around, and in Feb of 2015 me and the wife find out we are having our fist child, he was born in OCT so needless to say I didn't go hunting in 2015.
Would have went last year but didn't want to "borrow" a friends firearm cause 1. you can't get good without shooting it, and 2, didn't want the liability for
damaging it somehow (thinking scratches mostly)

So now it is 2017 and I am fired up for providing for my family, and so is the wife. it's funny how having a child changes things like that in a guy/gal.
So going to be ramping up the fishing and want to go hunting both with crossbow and riffle. I know what I want with crossbow, so don't need help there. . .

Where I need advise:

Knowing that I want a lever action I have narrowed it down to two riffles, the Browning BLR in 30-06 or the Henry 45-70.
I have been looking and researching and googling but really what I need is some advise, the kind of advise only experienced ones have.

This has nothing to do with the caliber. In my opinion, a person who has spent adequate time with their firearm (pistol or rifle) knows how to use it.
It doesn't matter if it is a 30-06, .300, 270 etc. Rather my question deals more with the recoil. I have read and watched
about how people get to big of a gun and flinch before they shoot, thus making them a poor shot. This is something I want to avoid.
Having said that, my question is about 30-06 vs 45-70. Since I have fired a 30-06 (with 180 grain federal ammo)
I know how the recoil is on that, and the recoil didn't even phase me didn't notice one really.

If you do enough forum reading and video watching of the 45-70 you see the range of the "Kick" that goes from "it's about the same as a 30-06" to "Good Grief, that thing kicks like a mule".
I've even seen a you tube video of an 8 yo getting his first buck with a 45-70.

I know the "Kick" of a rifle is VERY subjective but I was wanting to know if a 45-70 is a good rifle, what I mean by good, is that, is it good for a new rifle owner that one can learn to shoot well
without developing the flinch problem. "Why am I even looking at the 45-70?" you may ask. well, from all the research and vids I have seen, It anchors a deer pretty much where it stands, granted it is a proper shot.
I born with a not so good back so want to try to alleviate having to chase a deer across Arkansas.

And seeing how I live in NWA I know I am unlikely to be doing any type of LONG range shooting.
The expensiveness of out of state tags guarantees I will not be hunting in other states. (except perhaps Texas Hogs)

If I had a friend that lived near me that had a 45-70 I would go shoot and compare, but I don't.
In the end I know it is MY decision on what rifle to buy. I am just trying to make the most informed decision that I can make for ME.

I'm planing to go out to hobbs state park soon to ask them another hunting question and hope I can get a good answer.
If you know of another forum that I might get more of an answer from please let me know and I can copy paste this there.

Anyhow if you have got this far thanks for taking your time reading this and thanks if you answer this post!

[Hawkeye]

Take it from a fellow NW Arkansas hunter...45-70 is too much caliber for this area. A 30-06 should be plenty of knockdown power around here & most of us use less than that. If you're hunting on Hobbs, you're shooting whitetail at under 100 yards. BTW, when you're ready to buy, go see my friends at Arky Armory. In most cases, they'll have the best deals around here, and will order anything they don't have in stock.

BTW, I'm just a few minutes outside of Hobbs. I didn't know there were any other NW Arkansas players in here.

[xendoshi]

Yea I live in Fayetteville. As far as hunting in hobbs (or ozark Natl), don't know how to do so since the only time I went hunting was on private land of my friend's friend. . .
Hence going out to Hobbs and asking my questions. . .

Anyhow,
In regards to the 45-70, is it too much because of the flora? If you don't mind, can you explain why it is too much for the area.
Just curious as to why you say that. AND since you do live in the next town over, is the shooting range out at hobbs any good?

Thanks for the fast reply! I appreciate it much!

[Fletchette]

1.) Try not to shoot through the shoulder IRL, that's where a lot of the usable meat is. Shoot a few inches behind the shoulder (entry and exit), because there is very little usable meat in the rib cage of a deer. Lungs is what you want, don't bother with heart.

2.) All things being equal, the recoil of a .270 is a bit less than a 30-06, because the energy of a 30-06 is higher. I suspect you felt more recoil from the .270 because it was either a lighter gun, didn't have a good recoil pad, or you were indeed holding it wrong. BTW, while you certainly do feel the recoil while you are target shooting, especially of you are firing several rounds, you really don't notice the recoil when you are hunting. Your mind is occupied with other things.

3.) For hunting, I would still recommend getting a bolt action over a lever. Levers are fun, I own several, but when I'm seriously hunting I take a bolt. They are more reliable, and allow you to use much better ammunition (modern bullet types), rather than round-nose.

4. Although it happens, it's relatively rare that you'd need a quick follow up shot on a deer, especially at short range in a wooded or brushy area. And even of you take one, it's usually unnecessary ( the deer will go down), and a poorly placed shot. With a little practice you'll be able to work a bold plenty fast.

In summary, heavier guns will recoil less. You could consider getting a semi-auto which will have even less recoil, and then you don't even need to worry about working a bold or a lever. Or drop down ever further in power to a .243 or 25-06. They are both still fine for whitetail in your area. A 45-70 will certainly work, but unless it's a really heavy gun will usually kick a lot more. It's also a really heavy and slow round (velocity), and usually more expensive to shoot that the more common calibers mentioned above.

IMO

[InstinctiveArcher]

If you are relatively new to firearms, and are worried about flinching, get yourself a .22 and just shoot. Get to the point where you are just squeezing the trigger without flinching. It's just like shooting a light weight bow before moving up in draw weight. Work your way into it.

A 45-70 is really overkill in my opinion if you are going after deer. When I started out deer hunting, I used a 243. It is a fantastic gun and very underrated in my opinion. Lots of people say they need more power, so they move up to big guns. Of the 5 deer that I shot with a .243, only one made it further than 50 yards. I shot a doe down the train tracks one time that I later paced off to be 189 yards. The deer barely made it off of the tracks. You say that you are mainly hunting in the woods, so you won't be taking any crazy long shots. I would recommend trying a .243 out. They are great guns that don't kick much but still get the job done easily. I see lots of people who get into a gun that's to much for them to handle, simply because they want a bigger gun. Obviously, shoot what you're comfortable with, it's totally up to you. I switched to a .300 savage last year, but that was only because my brother was using my .243. I find that the difference in recoil between a .300 and .243 is barely noticeable.

[walt133]

This^ Instinctive knows what he's talking about when he says to use a 243. Those make awesome deer rifles and don't recoil much. Of course when your ready to move up to a bigger gun the 12 gauge shotgun with slugs, will take deer down with ease inside 75 yards. But if your worried about recoil don't start of with a 12 gauge. They do kick a little bit.

[Hawkeye]

Yea I live in Fayetteville. As far as hunting in hobbs (or ozark Natl), don't know how to do so since the only time I went hunting was on private land of my friend's friend. . .
Hence going out to Hobbs and asking my questions. . .

Anyhow,
In regards to the 45-70, is it too much because of the flora? If you don't mind, can you explain why it is too much for the area.
Just curious as to why you say that. AND since you do live in the next town over, is the shooting range out at hobbs any good?

Thanks for the fast reply! I appreciate it much!

Fletchette & InstinctiveArcher both give solid advice above & Fletchette is familiar with this territory as well. When I'm considering a caliber for this area, flora is important, because of the relatively short ranges we're shooting. Unless you happen to be set up on the edge of a very large field, you're usually shooting less than 100m. As for the 45-70, I think it's too much damage to the front shoulder, as Fletchette was referring to. In my experience, you're very rarely able to get a perfectly broadside shot, and so you're shooting quartering towards or quartering away, and you're going to blow up a shoulder coming in or out. With a 45-70, hitting a shoulder would turn it to jelly. It's just too much bullet for whitetail IMO, which is why nobody uses them here. Many also consider the 30-06 to be too much, but if your priority is to eliminate tracking, that would do the trick in most cases. The most popular caliber around here is the 270. Among the circles that I hunt with, the 7mm08 has really gained a lot of usage over the past few years. It's a great round, with very little felt recoil. I would also reiterate Fletchette's advice on bolt action vs lever & highly recommend you consider the bolt.

As for Hobbs, I haven't shot at their range yet, but I'm afraid I might have to start soon. Since I was a boy, I've shot on the same bit of private land out in Madison County, but it just recently changed ownership, so I'm looking for another place to shoot. I have some friends that shoot there, and I'm told it can get crowded on the weekends, so you'd want to go during the week to try to avoid a bunch of people. It is popular among the AR-15 crowd too, which can tend to bother some people. Other than that, I'm told it's good...nice 100 yard range that's out of the way. We're working up a load for an 8mm Mauser, and if we can't find another place, we'll be heading up there to shoot in the next week or so.

[gas56]

Greetings all!




Where I need advise:

Knowing that I want a lever action I have narrowed it down to two riffles, the Browning BLR in 30-06 or the Henry 45-70.
I have been looking and researching and googling but really what I need is some advise, the kind of advise only experienced ones have.

If you're dead set on one of these guns for hunting deer....
The 30-06 would be my recommendation, just because it is not too powerful for the game your after now as is the 45/70, it's not that expensive to shoot, and you will even be able to shoot a lot of other big game animals with it. And it is a straight shooter with a flat trajectory and with the help of a scope you should have no problem hitting what you're aiming at after handling it for awhile. And it will become your long time hunting companion. No matter what your likes are about bolts, lever actions, or semi-autos, that is your preference.... so make sure that what you really want before you buy it. Try different gun actions out at your local gun shops to give you an idea that may persuade you to make a decision about your preferences.
A gun is a tool, so use one to do the job that will get it done best... and don't worry about if how cool this gun looks. Get one that will be dependable out in the field, And if you need someone to help you sort out through this process don't hesitate to ask for a friends advice that has used hunting guns a long time, or the gun store owner. They may steer you in the right direction to what is practical in your hunting area. What it really come down to is finding a gun that you don't want to get rid of in a years time of use, but sometimes everyone can make a wrong decision, but until you do make it you won't know.
So good luck and I hope you find the gun that best suits your needs.
Have a good 1.............................GAS

P.S. have you ever shot a Winchester model 94, 30/30 lever action?
It's a great brush gun for deer hunting.

[xendoshi]

Thanks guys for the info! it is something for me to mull over for a little while (I am planning on getting my riffle in April or May).

I do understand what yall saying about the 45-70. So I will X that out.

@ Fletchette

Thanks for the tips!
And you probably hit the nail on the head with statement #2 It was probably all 3!
As for statement #3."For hunting, I would still recommend getting a bolt action over a lever. Levers are fun, I own several, but when I'm seriously hunting I take a bolt.
They are more reliable, and allow you to use much better ammunition (modern bullet types), rather than round-nose"

That's why I am looking at the Browning BLR.
Not only is it a lever action but It comes with a 4 round magazine, has a rotating head and comes in 16 different calibers, so it will use the spitzer bullet types instead of the round nose type.

@InstinctiveArcher
I am not over worried about flinching was just wanting to get some idea if it tends to be a problem with new shooters.
I know I didn't have a flinching problem when I was practicing, I shot 20-40 rounds and was hitting consistently in the same spots.
If I remember correctly, only had one flyer and that's cause I sneezed. . yea bad timing.

@walt133 & Hawkeye

I am up for considering other calibers. I will look at the 273, 270 and the 7mm08 as all those comes in the Browning BLR I am looking at.


@ gas56

I agree with your comment about "A gun is a tool, so use one to do the job that will get it done best... and don't worry about if how cool this gun looks". I am not looking at
the looks so much as the function of it. in fact I think all rifles look the same, but perhaps I have an untrained eye, but to me a rifle looks like, a riffle. . .And no I have never shot a Winchester model 94 30/30.

I know I have to take what not only all yall have said, but all my friends say as well with a grain of salt. And the problem with advise is, just like recoil, it's ALL Subjective.
At the start of the thread I mentioned that I shot both a lever action .270 and a bolt action 30-06, I had asked them both there advice, at the same time, one swears by bolt action the other lever action.
Got many more friends the same way, some younger then me, some as older. all varying opinions and advice.

I do though want to thank ALL of yall for your input. So Thanks!

[Radamus]

I like to play with my rounds on the reloading bench so I'd go off the chart somewhat with .308 or 7mm-08 and tweak those for my tastes but it comes down to what color of your favorite Ford, Chevy or Dodge kind of thing. You don't need the powder burners of the 30-06 or 270 for WT although 2 of the most prevalent rounds in North America and solid options. Even the 243 is a throat cutter in standard loadings. If you're not into loading stick with something popular to have a wide choice in offerings. Practice with your choice and remember

This is my rifle. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
My rifle is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I must master my life.
Without me, my rifle is useless. Without my rifle, I am useless. I must fire my rifle true.
I must shoot straighter than my enemy who is trying to kill me. I must shoot him before he shoots me