Bear Caller

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xOEDragonx
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Re: Bear Caller

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OldMtnMan wrote:[Bait which is not hunting but killing. Also, it's illegal in a lot of states. (like mine) The other way is calling. A very popular way to hunt for bear. Calling is as realistic as it gets.
You lost me. Baiting, which us merely toying with an animal's sense of sight and smell is killing, but calling, which is toying with an animal's sense of hearing, is totally legit and as realistic as it gets?

I'm really not trying to start a baiting debate, but there is an irony in your way of thinking. That one way of tricking is acceptable, but another is not. Calling is just baiting with the sound of an injured animal.

I respect people who put the time into hunting without needing any type of aid, baits or calls or anything. I really do. It's an art. But it's also not realistic for many people anymore. I don't have 125 days a year to scout and stare at my quarry. I'm lucky to have my weekends in hunting seasons, many people don't get time off at all. However, something I do almost every day of the year is eat, and I prefer wild venison over a store bought cow any day of the week. If a corn field or even a pile of corn is going to make the difference between me seeing and shooting a deer during open season, I'll do it every time (if legal of course, it is in my state). Not everyone is a trophy hunter.

Yet I've pulled my bait each year for bear season because baiting bears is illegal in my state too. You see baiting as an ethical issue because it's too easy, but honestly I find no baiting to be so much worse. In my area anyway. Maryland has a lottery for bear tags and a 5 day season (Monday-Friday mind you, no weekends). So it can take years to get a tag, you can only hunt them in certain counties, and most people have to take off work to hunt them. Without the aid of bait (what many consider a gaurantee, also not really true), you can be rest assured the majority of bear hunters in this state are shooting the first 30 pound cub or sow with first year cubs (which orphans the cubs and sentences first year babies to death, they normally stay with mom into their second spring here) they see every time. That's the true price of a lottery, short season, limited area, and no aids. A 15% success rate (arguably less than that) makes people desperate. People are going to take what they can get because they're often making sacrifices just to be able to participate. At least with baiting, you might provide someone the option to pass up on the first sow or cub they see in hopes of a mature boar. And then you could realistically add a size limitation.

Baiting isn't always the monster people make it out to be. If you sit over an animal's only natural water source or a natural food source in it's established territory, does that really make someone any better? You're still taking advantage of an animal's senses and needs.

Oh, and even though I remove the corn, the nearby apple tree full of apples is legal. As is my neighbor's corn field. How does one even draw a line as to what's hunting versus what's killing?

I would not want a bear caller in the game just because of the availability of baiting for some species already. For those that can't be baited, spot and stalk. It's nice having a handful of animals in the game that aren't necessarily easy to kill.
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Re: Bear Caller

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Fletchette wrote:
OldMtnMan wrote:
InvisibleFlame9 wrote:The idea of a bear caller gets a thumbs down for me. How dull this game would be if all animals could be called in. The difference between Hunter Classic and Call of the Wild is call of the wild is a silly game for gamers. Classic is based more on realism and that's what makes it good.
Not a bear hunter huh? There's two ways to hunt for bear. Bait which is not hunting but killing. Also, it's illegal in a lot of states. (like mine) The other way is calling. A very popular way to hunt for bear. Calling is as realistic as it gets.

Actually, there 3 ways. I do the 3rd way but few do. I scout all the time and know where all the natural foods are. I hope to catch one in one of those areas by sneaking up on them. Most guys won't be successful doing it but it's rewarding when it works.
Yeah, but you probably use guns or bows, don't you?

Regardless of the animal (deer, elk, bear, etc.), around here we either run them down and tackle them, or drop out of trees and choke them out. Then we gut them (with our teeth and bare hands of course), and drag them back to camp for the women folk to butcher with chipped flint knives.

That's real hunting, any other way it just killing !!!
Guns or bows? Hell no! Fists only. Duke it out and then eat the whole thing raw. Hide and all. Skinning is for girls.

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Re: Bear Caller

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mel_o_mel wrote:I always thought that Elk Calf Caller should also have some effect on Grizzlies, but then again, I always tell people when you're hunting on Timbergold you are the bait.
It should bring in bears. It should also bring in bulls. Bugles mean another bull wants to fight for the harem. Cow calls mean the cow is in estrus and is calling a bull to come to breed.

Too bad it doesn't work like that in the game. I still find it hard to believe any hunters were on the staff that developed the game. Unless stuff was left out on purpose because it was easier.
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Re: Bear Caller

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xOEDragonx wrote:
OldMtnMan wrote:[Bait which is not hunting but killing. Also, it's illegal in a lot of states. (like mine) The other way is calling. A very popular way to hunt for bear. Calling is as realistic as it gets.
You lost me. Baiting, which us merely toying with an animal's sense of sight and smell is killing, but calling, which is toying with an animal's sense of hearing, is totally legit and as realistic as it gets?

I'm really not trying to start a baiting debate, but there is an irony in your way of thinking. That one way of tricking is acceptable, but another is not. Calling is just baiting with the sound of an injured animal.

I respect people who put the time into hunting without needing any type of aid, baits or calls or anything. I really do. It's an art. But it's also not realistic for many people anymore. I don't have 125 days a year to scout and stare at my quarry. I'm lucky to have my weekends in hunting seasons, many people don't get time off at all. However, something I do almost every day of the year is eat, and I prefer wild venison over a store bought cow any day of the week. If a corn field or even a pile of corn is going to make the difference between me seeing and shooting a deer during open season, I'll do it every time (if legal of course, it is in my state). Not everyone is a trophy hunter.

Yet I've pulled my bait each year for bear season because baiting bears is illegal in my state too. You see baiting as an ethical issue because it's too easy, but honestly I find no baiting to be so much worse. In my area anyway. Maryland has a lottery for bear tags and a 5 day season (Monday-Friday mind you, no weekends). So it can take years to get a tag, you can only hunt them in certain counties, and most people have to take off work to hunt them. Without the aid of bait (what many consider a gaurantee, also not really true), you can be rest assured the majority of bear hunters in this state are shooting the first 30 pound cub or sow with first year cubs (which orphans the cubs and sentences first year babies to death, they normally stay with mom into their second spring here) they see every time. That's the true price of a lottery, short season, limited area, and no aids. A 15% success rate (arguably less than that) makes people desperate. People are going to take what they can get because they're often making sacrifices just to be able to participate. At least with baiting, you might provide someone the option to pass up on the first sow or cub they see in hopes of a mature boar. And then you could realistically add a size limitation.

Baiting isn't always the monster people make it out to be. If you sit over an animal's only natural water source or a natural food source in it's established territory, does that really make someone any better? You're still taking advantage of an animal's senses and needs.

Oh, and even though I remove the corn, the nearby apple tree full of apples is legal. As is my neighbor's corn field. How does one even draw a line as to what's hunting versus what's killing?

I would not want a bear caller in the game just because of the availability of baiting for some species already. For those that can't be baited, spot and stalk. It's nice having a handful of animals in the game that aren't necessarily easy to kill.
It's not why the bear comes to the call or bait. It's the state their in when the hunter shoots them. In baiting they're just standing around eating. Easy target from a tree stand. Especially, when the hunter didn't even setup the tree stand and bait. Like happens when hiring an outfitter. A hunter (?) will be taken to the tree stand on an ATV. The bait are all setup waiting for him. He get's in the stand shoots a bear and calls the outfitter to come get him. The outfitter picks him up and skins, quarters, and ships the head and hide to be taxi's. It's then sent to the hunter (?) Then that hunter (?) will brag all over forums what a great hunter he is and shows pictures of his trophy room full of animals he got the same way.

The the worst case. The average hunter will set out trial cameras to find the spot to setup the tree stand and bait. Other than that it's not too different than the first example. Except, he drives the ATV and takes the bear to a butcher.

Calling is only a small step up. The bear is alert when it comes to the call and is looking for a meal. There's a certain amount of danger. That will take a cooler head when shooting. A few more things that make it more hunter than killer.

As for your comments on a sow with cubs. Both would be illegal to shoot in my state. As is going in a den after a bear. Colorado pushes fair chase hunting. I really do. Give the game a break. They're giving up their life if they fail. What are you giving up if you fail?
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Re: Bear Caller

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xOEDragonx wrote:
OldMtnMan wrote:[Bait which is not hunting but killing. Also, it's illegal in a lot of states. (like mine) The other way is calling. A very popular way to hunt for bear. Calling is as realistic as it gets.
You lost me. Baiting, which us merely toying with an animal's sense of sight and smell is killing, but calling, which is toying with an animal's sense of hearing, is totally legit and as realistic as it gets?

I'm really not trying to start a baiting debate, but there is an irony in your way of thinking. That one way of tricking is acceptable, but another is not. Calling is just baiting with the sound of an injured animal.

I respect people who put the time into hunting without needing any type of aid, baits or calls or anything. I really do. It's an art. But it's also not realistic for many people anymore. I don't have 125 days a year to scout and stare at my quarry. I'm lucky to have my weekends in hunting seasons, many people don't get time off at all. However, something I do almost every day of the year is eat, and I prefer wild venison over a store bought cow any day of the week. If a corn field or even a pile of corn is going to make the difference between me seeing and shooting a deer during open season, I'll do it every time (if legal of course, it is in my state). Not everyone is a trophy hunter.

Yet I've pulled my bait each year for bear season because baiting bears is illegal in my state too. You see baiting as an ethical issue because it's too easy, but honestly I find no baiting to be so much worse. In my area anyway. Maryland has a lottery for bear tags and a 5 day season (Monday-Friday mind you, no weekends). So it can take years to get a tag, you can only hunt them in certain counties, and most people have to take off work to hunt them. Without the aid of bait (what many consider a gaurantee, also not really true), you can be rest assured the majority of bear hunters in this state are shooting the first 30 pound cub or sow with first year cubs (which orphans the cubs and sentences first year babies to death, they normally stay with mom into their second spring here) they see every time. That's the true price of a lottery, short season, limited area, and no aids. A 15% success rate (arguably less than that) makes people desperate. People are going to take what they can get because they're often making sacrifices just to be able to participate. At least with baiting, you might provide someone the option to pass up on the first sow or cub they see in hopes of a mature boar. And then you could realistically add a size limitation.

Baiting isn't always the monster people make it out to be. If you sit over an animal's only natural water source or a natural food source in it's established territory, does that really make someone any better? You're still taking advantage of an animal's senses and needs.

Oh, and even though I remove the corn, the nearby apple tree full of apples is legal. As is my neighbor's corn field. How does one even draw a line as to what's hunting versus what's killing?
Much of the difference in hunting techniques used by people depend on where they are hunting. The terrain and vegetation make a huge difference.

Stand hunting and drives are common in the east and Midwest, because you are in hardwood forest with extremely poor visibility. Combined with what is often relatively flat ground, your chances of spotting and stalking a deer or bear are minimal because you literally can't see them until you're right on them. They will see, hear, or smell you long before you can get close enough for a shot, which often means getting to within 40 yards of less. There is also so much food available, from acorns to crop fields, that scouting feeding areas is often a waste of time. I grew up hunting is Iowa, Illinois, and Missouri, and it's rare to spot a deer over 100 yards, and the average shot is probably less that 50 yards. I usually hear deer before I can see them because the cover is so thick.

For the last decade I've hunted antelope, deer, and elk in central Montana, and it's a whole different ballgame. YOU CAN SEE !!!. Almost all hunting there is glass and stalk. We commonly spot the animals miles away, make a plan, then stalk using coulees and other terrain as cover, to get within 200-400 yards for a shot. The much sparser vegetation, and the ability to shoot across a coulee, or into terrain that is below or above you is an extraordinary advantage.

I've never hunted beer, but I suspect the rules on baiting are at least partially based on the terrain and vegetation cover in the different states. For example, trying to sneak up on a bear in the flat, swampy, densely covered ground in Minnesota or Wisconsin is probably pretty tough, so they allow baiting. But out west, where you often have sparser vegetation, and elevation to your advantage, it's a lot easier to spot them at distance.

I've spent a lot of time in northern Minnesota, but despite there being a good bear population, I think the only time I've ever seen them is at the dump. Out west I've spotted bear a number of times, often from miles away because they were crossing an open area on a mountain, where a snow-slide or "slip" took out most of the trees during some previous winter.
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Re: Bear Caller

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I hear that a lot. The problem is I was born and brought up in Mass. It's where my grandfather still hunted and taught my father to do it. He in turn taught me and my brother. Still hunting works best in thick terrain. You should see the terrain in Colorado that I hunted. Everyone thinks of the western states as being wide open shots. It can be if you want it. You also have the choice to hunt the dark timber. So thick and dark no food for the game will grow in it. It forces the animals to find feed in other spots. I like that. It keeps them moving around. An elk walking a game trial is less alert than one laying down looking around. They use the dark timber to bed down.
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Re: Bear Caller

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OldMtnMan wrote:I hear that a lot. The problem is I was born and brought up in Mass. It's where my grandfather still hunted and taught my father to do it. He in turn taught me and my brother. Still hunting works best in thick terrain. You should see the terrain in Colorado that I hunted. Everyone thinks of the western states as being wide open shots. It can be if you want it. You also have the choice to hunt the dark timber. So thick and dark no food for the game will grow in it. It forces the animals to find feed in other spots. I like that. It keeps them moving around. An elk walking a game trial is less alert than one laying down looking around. They use the dark timber to bed down.
You hear that a lot, because it's generally true. And I agree that being born and brought up in Mass. is a problem...A huge problem. :lol:

I didn't say western states are wide open shots, although they certain can be. I was taking about the ability to see much longer distances. To spot animals from much further away, and have the advantage of elevation to spot them above, below, or across coulees or valleys. That is rarely the case in the East and Midwest. Your best chance of spotting them at a distance, is if they cross or stop in a crop field or pasture, but once the first shots of opening day ring out, they don't spend much time during daylight hours standing around in fields.

And the vegetation is different. Obviously out west there are thick areas, particularly dead-falls and Aspen groves that can be like a jungle, but even in dense trees (dark forest) the undergrowth tends to be MUCH less. The pine, fir, and spruce tend to grow pretty straight up, with fairly bare ground underneath covered with needles. As you said, "no food". It's like a mowed park compared to walking through the dense undergrowth of hardwood forest, where the undergrowth is tall, and thick, and filled with thorny rose bushes that will shred you. The deer can literally eat their way through the forest. And you often can't see more than 20 yards, much less shoot through it. It gets better if the state has a late season where the leaves have fallen, and the undergrowth has died back, or snow has laid it down, but here in Missouri that hasn't happened during bow season, and even during rifle season the leaves are still mostly up and there hasn't been much, if any, snow yet. Of course walking though a foot of dry fallen leaves makes moving quietly almost impossible.

Almost everyone I've hunted with out west carries binos with them. Why? Because you can see. I've never carried binos when hunting in the east or mid western states, and rarely see anyone do it. Why? Because they don't help. You can't see.

Another big difference is hunter density. When I'm hunting out west there is rarely anyone else around for miles, even on opening day. I'm lucky that my hunting buddies have access to private land (large ranches that are 5000-20000 acres each, so we don't have to hunt public ground. We rarely even hear other hunters shooting. That's not the case out east. Even though I live in the country, and usually hunt my own property, sunrise on opening day sounds like the start of WWIII. The deer are alert, on edge, and moving all day long as hunters push them around. It actually helps quite a bit that this happens, otherwise they'd be bedded down somewhere until dark which is their normal routine except during the rut.

I'm not saying hunting either place is harder or easier, just different, which is why people have adopted different hunting techniques.
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Re: Bear Caller

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I'll agree the west offers more options for hunting methods. I chose thick timber in the beginning and still do. I'm at home there. The animals are harder to see but in turn i'm harder to see too. Lot's of stuff to hide behind.

Colorado can be a zoo with hunters but it's mostly in rifle seasons. Especially, units that offer OTC tags. Those are so crowded it's comical. I'm surprised more hunters don't get shot.

I use a bow or muzzleloader. Both are in Sept. Rifle seasons start in Oct. Bow season gets almost two weeks before muzzy starts and the animals are still calm. There is a bear season in Sept that use rifles but it doesn't have a lot of hunters. I have no problem finding solitude because of when i hunt and where. Most hunter avoid the dark timber. I like that and so do the elk. If hunters aren't in an area the elk will be. If I do everything right the elk won't know i'm there either until it's too late for one of them. Then my freezer is full and i'm a happy old fart.

Elk steak for breakfast!
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Re: Bear Caller

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Fletchette wrote:I've never hunted beer,
Neither have I. I'd like to try that once though. At least you don't need to put in for a lottery to get a permit.
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Re: Bear Caller

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xOEDragonx wrote:
Fletchette wrote:I've never hunted beer,
Neither have I. I'd like to try that once though. At least you don't need to put in for a lottery to get a permit.
Oops.... :oops:
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