Trophy integrity influencing score of small game species.

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Sherab86
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Trophy integrity influencing score of small game species.

Post by Sherab86 »

Practicaly all small game species in the game are edible IRL. And aside of possible pests/varmints control, acquisition of meat is one of the reason for hunting those animals. Of course some of big game animals are edible too, but in game most of them are scored based on their antlers and horns.

This is why I suggest to integrate Trophy Integrity value into scoring system of small game species - meaning rabbits and birds.

This my main idea, so to speak.

But I think this could be also implemented for some big game animals, with are scored in the game based solely on their weight, and being for example fur-carriers - like foxes, to give an example. This could go aslo for bobcat, but it is scored based on skull dimmensions, so there wouldn't be justification. ;)

Such approach could somehow encourage to buy more weapons - perhaps - because we would have to worry more about proper selection of ammo for given task.

I tought about it while wondering wiht varmint rifle I want to buy. I've read in internet about some RL cartridges, and for example .17 HMR is know to "explode" small game animals within 75-100 meters. But since trophy integrity do not plays any real role in the game (aside of some competitions), it dosn't realy matter. And it could. ;) This would be more interesting, I think. :)
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Re: Trophy integrity influencing score of small game species.

Post by caledonianblues »

I wouldn't support or recommend changing the existing scoring system so that deductions are made for using inappropriate ammunition, even for small game. Not that I use inappropriate ammunition. I'm very much an advocate of using the right tool for the job, and in game this is often what I try to do. However, people aren't hunting animals in the game for meat or pelts. Trophy integrity already gives you a version of this data, if you want to impose such rules on yourself. This value is influenced by ammunition choice and shot distance. Use too large a calibre and trophy integrity will be reduced. Shoot an animal at close range and trophy integrity will be reduced. I think it's best to keep that data separate, and not have it influence the final score of the animal.

I know your proposal would potentially promote sales of weapons, but it would also suck a lot of fun out of the game for many players.
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Re: Trophy integrity influencing score of small game species.

Post by Sherab86 »

Thanks for your thoughts. :)

I can certainly agree with one point:
caledonianblues wrote:I know your proposal would potentially promote sales of weapons, but it would also suck a lot of fun out of the game for many players.
Question remains, would this be greater part, or smaller part of players community. But yeah - I think player's happyness, so to speak, should be probably main thing to consider. It is a pity, that so few poeple visit this part of the forum, and even less leaves some comments (And I don't speak only about my threads, but in general).

But...
caledonianblues wrote:However, people aren't hunting animals in the game for meat or pelts.
Well, yes, of course you are right. But I assume we simulate to some point reality. And species I mentioned are scored mostly by a weight. There are exceptions, of course - like turkey and pheasant. But my point is, that a whole animal is considered as a trophy, mostly. If you would blown-up your target IRL, there wouldn't stay any trophy, right? ;) Hence the idea. I don't say it have to be favored by any one else than me. ;) I only say, that your statement dosn't make it invalid in my opinion.
caledonianblues wrote:Trophy integrity already gives you a version of this data, if you want to impose such rules on yourself.
Yes, one can try to impose such rules on him- or herself. But this is not the way people normaly "work". This makes things artificial, and sooner or later we will break the rule, even if this would mean less fun actualy (personal opinion) - simply because we can do something more simply and effortless. With current "rules", best rifle for the job (exluding some competitions) is always a best performing one, aka. most powerful allowed. Trophy integrity dosn't play any role, aside of information (aside od some of mentioned competitions).
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Re: Trophy integrity influencing score of small game species.

Post by Tod1d »

I would like to see the Harvest Value system refined and used a lot more. For comp & mission requirements, and it would be great for ranks, achievements, and/or hunter score.

I would not like to see animal scores, and thereby leaderboards and competition scores, adjusted by HV or TI. Animal scores have always traditionally been based on physical attributes.

And I would argue that all of the big game "edible". Although the predators might not be "palatable" ;)

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Re: Trophy integrity influencing score of small game species.

Post by Sherab86 »

Tod1d wrote:I would like to see the Harvest Value system refined and used a lot more. For comp & mission requirements, and it would be great for ranks, achievements, and/or hunter score.

I would not like to see animal scores, and thereby leaderboards and competition scores, adjusted by HV or TI. Animal scores have always traditionally been based on physical attributes.

And I would argue that all of the big game "edible". Although the predators might not be "palatable" ;)

Be Well

I see your point. :) Thank you.

Still, I do consider a Trophy Integrity as "physical attribute". If your goal are antlers, and you devastate a fur or meat in the process, this dosn't realy matter, right? But if your goal is a whole animal (weight) as a trophy, you wouldn't want to destroy it too much, I guess. So this is reasoning behind my idea.

But I understand why you, guys, may not like the idea. :)

This is just an idea, after all. I won't be protecting it to the death. ;)
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Re: Trophy integrity influencing score of small game species.

Post by Tod1d »

Trophy Integrity was supposed to represent overall value (meat, pelt, trophy (horns, beard, tail, skull))
But they needed it to be possible to get 100% on every species, while keeping it generic enough to work with all species.
Technically, if you think about it, from their explanation, it's impossible to get 100%. You are putting hole through the hide, and damaging something with any shot.

So, they compromised and made it so you can get 100% if you don't do too much damage. (appropriate weapon & distance)

TI (damage) might be influenced by physical attributes of the animal (size, toughness), and the damage threshold to achieve 100% TI.
But an animals score has traditionally been based on it's own inherent attributes, regardless of how it was killed or the damage done.
The score represents something like, "best of breed" or "finest specimen" and has nothing to do with hunter skill or weapon choice.

Although the rabbit, duck, ptarmigan (and probably fox) scores are totally arbitrary. I'm not aware of any IRL organization that actually scores them.
Most hunters I know of brag about quantity to show their prowess when hunting those animals.

I like the idea of using TI (or HV) for more than what it is now, just not for animal score.
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Re: Trophy integrity influencing score of small game species.

Post by gas56 »

Tod1d wrote:Trophy Integrity was supposed to represent overall value (meat, pelt, trophy (horns, beard, tail, skull))
But they needed it to be possible to get 100% on every species, while keeping it generic enough to work with all species.
Technically, if you think about it, from their explanation, it's impossible to get 100%. You are putting hole through the hide, and damaging something with any shot.

So, they compromised and made it so you can get 100% if you don't do too much damage. (appropriate weapon & distance)

TI (damage) might be influenced by physical attributes of the animal (size, toughness), and the damage threshold to achieve 100% TI.
But an animals score has traditionally been based on it's own inherent attributes, regardless of how it was killed or the damage done.
The score represents something like, "best of breed" or "finest specimen" and has nothing to do with hunter skill or weapon choice.

Although the rabbit, duck, ptarmigan (and probably fox) scores are totally arbitrary. I'm not aware of any IRL organization that actually scores them.
Most hunters I know of brag about quantity to show their prowess when hunting those animals.

I like the idea of using TI (or HV) for more than what it is now, just not for animal score.
Harvest value in the game is probably the most utterly ridiculous function that represents a perfect kill in it's entire highest base achieved.
For instance if you used a 12 ga shotgun to shoot a rabbit at 3 meters (9ft) than there is hardly nothing left except mostly hide IRL. I've seen it happen from inexperienced hunters, talk about tenderizing the meat...... :)
I'm glad this is a game where you don't have to worry about such things about eating it, or keeping the pelt in good condition,.. especially also including where if you shoot an big game animal 3 times and your harvest value is very low, in the game what does it matter when you know it does none of these things in harming meat or pelt or trophy mounts.
IMO it's one function that should have been left out of the game,.. but was just made as a requisite for making the game more broader but to what extent?
but I guess you can't have everything that makes sense.
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Re: Trophy integrity influencing score of small game species.

Post by Sherab86 »

gas56 wrote: Harvest value in the game is probably the most utterly ridiculous function that represents a perfect kill in it's entire highest base achieved.
For instance if you used a 12 ga shotgun to shoot a rabbit at 3 meters (9ft) than there is hardly nothing left except mostly hide IRL. I've seen it happen from inexperienced hunters, talk about tenderizing the meat...... :)
I'm glad this is a game where you don't have to worry about such things about eating it, or keeping the pelt in good condition,.. especially also including where if you shoot an big game animal 3 times and your harvest value is very low, in the game what does it matter when you know it does none of these things in harming meat or pelt or trophy mounts.
IMO it's one function that should have been left out of the game,.. but was just made as a requisite for making the game more broader but to what extent?
but I guess you can't have everything that makes sense.
Well... I've never said, that current "Harvest Value" system works good. However, to be precise, I wanted to implement only "trophy integrity" parameter into a score. ;) And I guess, to be meaningful, "trophy integrity" should be revisited by the devs.

But... While resposnes to my idea are rather limited, they are mostly negative - so I guess there is nothing to talk about any longer, anyway. :P
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