.30-30 Buff to Meet .44 Magnum Performance

[Dubitabilus]

Tl;Dr: .30-30 Winchester should be buffed to perform similarly to the .44 Rem Magnum but with the advantage of reaching out to "rifle" ranges. Comparing rifle cartridges to handgun cartridges is difficult, but in the case between the .30-30 Win & .44 Rem Mag, the argument is there and has been researched upon.
(Note: The in-game bullet weight of the .44 Mag is given at 300gr. I've selected the heaviest recorded weights from the tables to be as accurate as possible in the comparison.)
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Here is the difference in impact energy at muzzle, 100yds, and 200yds (Velocity in FPS/Energy in ft*lbs):
http://www.chuckhawks.com/rifle_ballistics_table2.htm

.30-30 Win. (170 FP)

• @0.0': 2200/1827
  @100': 1895/1353
  @200': 1619/989

.44 Rem. Mag. (275 HP)

• @0.0': 1580/1524
  @100': 1293/1020
  @200': 1093/730

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Here is the difference in calculated "killing power" at 100yds using the formula from the website:
http://www.chuckhawks.com/rifle_killing_power_list.htm

.30-30 Winchester (170 grain at 2200 fps) - 25.4

.44 Remington Magnum (Rifle) (240 grain at 1760 fps) - 26.4
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Based on the numbers above and other articles circulating the web, the .30-30 Win. performs similarly to the .44 Rem. Magnum up to 100yds (91.44m). After that distance, the .30-30 Winchester's still retains enough power for deer to 200yds (182.88m). Since the performance between the two is similar IRL, the performance should be reflected in-game as well. The .30-30 lever action should be effectively a medium range version of the .44 revolver, therefore it should have it's species list expanded and it's damage calculations improved.

For those advocating "just use the .30-06 lever action" I have. It is a wonderful rifle, however, that is another point altogether that needs to be addressed. The .30-30 needs some more love!

[L3M182]

30-30 got some love a few months back you shoulda seen it before!. i find all calibers in this game are sub real life performance but im ok with it as it improves the challenge and difficulty of the game. the way i look at it is the cartridge loads arnt so hot becasue the animals are so chill. i.e the bullets dont need the effective range of the real life counterparts becasue its so much easier to get close to animals in game than irl. the 30-30 will still dump a reindeer at 50m and youd get a lung on a pig or red deer at that range too which is curtains after about 100m flee anyways. id say its effective enough.

[Dubitabilus]

[..] i find all calibers in this game are sub real life performance [...] the bullets dont need the effective range of the real life counterparts becasue its so much easier to get close to animals in game than irl. the 30-30 will still dump a reindeer at 50m and youd get a lung on a pig or red deer at that range too which is curtains after about 100m flee anyways. id say its effective enough.

I agree with no need for IRL range performance and the .30-30's effectiveness on currently permitted species, however, the .30-30, 6.5mm SE & .270 Win as well, are effective elk and black bear cartridges within the optimal ranges.

In-game optimal ranges are effectively 50-60% of of real world values, mostly due to the limitation of the 220m lateral rendering distance. I completely understand the scaling of the .30-30's 175m "max. optimal" range IRL to the 80-90m "max. optimal" in-game. In considering the "practical range" of .30-30's 100m irl/50m in-game, the bullet energy is still there to double-lung an elk or single-lung a black bear. I know Doc hates it but try it out! Make shots within 50m to the vitals and it is a OHKO.

Ultimately, it is just the permission to take elk and black bear. Effectively, a majority of the ammunition greater than .264" (6.5mm) with a muzzle velocity above 2100fps (640m/s) is suitable for elk/black bear. Should this not be reflected in the most realistic hunting simulator to date?

[L3M182]

well the permited species is a total can of worms in itself and the previous topics have gone over the way its layed out 1000 times. i dont see how anything permitd for pigs isnt permited for black bear. but the permitted species list is a mox of realism and balance and EW get to make the rules so..

[gas56]

[..] i find all calibers in this game are sub real life performance [...] the bullets dont need the effective range of the real life counterparts becasue its so much easier to get close to animals in game than irl. the 30-30 will still dump a reindeer at 50m and youd get a lung on a pig or red deer at that range too which is curtains after about 100m flee anyways. id say its effective enough.

I agree with no need for IRL range performance and the .30-30's effectiveness on currently permitted species, however, the .30-30, 6.5mm SE & .270 Win as well, are effective elk and black bear cartridges within the optimal ranges.

In-game optimal ranges are effectively 50-60% of of real world values, mostly due to the limitation of the 220m lateral rendering distance. I completely understand the scaling of the .30-30's 175m "max. optimal" range IRL to the 80-90m "max. optimal" in-game. In considering the "practical range" of .30-30's 100m irl/50m in-game, the bullet energy is still there to double-lung an elk or single-lung a black bear. I know Doc hates it but try it out! Make shots within 50m to the vitals and it is a OHKO.

Ultimately, it is just the permission to take elk and black bear. Effectively, a majority of the ammunition greater than .264" (6.5mm) with a muzzle velocity above 2100fps (640m/s) is suitable for elk/black bear. Should this not be reflected in the most realistic hunting simulator to date?

I have to agree with L3M182 for the most part, but because IRL there is no game balance.
Even though some rifle calibers can make a whole lot of difference IRL, it is also equated to bullet weight & loads, like in the example of the .270 is not permitted to shoot larger game animals because of the lighter bullet weight it uses in the game. If it was upped just a little than it would be adequate for Elk, which it is not ATM.
This is where they keep in touch with the game balance and decide which guns & loads are used and what species can be shot, and how to sell rifles that fits their bill.
IMO this game is not a simulator besides pointing a weapon and shooting the animal,.. that's about as close as it gets.
The reality of it is that it is a game only and there really is no point of comparing exacttamundo.

[Dubitabilus]

If game balance was the goal, then I would actually consider having the .30-30 become more like the .243. Just switch the ammo to the 150gr or 130gr Nosler Ballistic Tips and add foxes to the list. There are alot of "Class 2<" rifles in the game, but only a few "Class 1" firearms like the .243, .223, .357, "#1 Buckshot", and .50 Ball. Unless EW is planning to offer .357 & .44 lever carbines in the future, moving the .30-30 to the .243 "entry-level" class would balance out the levers.

Class 1: .30-30
Class 2: .30-06
Class 3/4: .45-70

As for the original premise of buffing the .30-30 to equal a .44 medium-range elk rifle, I did some research and found the hunting regulations of Sweden. Elk requires 2,000j @ 100m to be considered suitable for elk, bear and moose. That seems a bit excessive, but at least I understand the "limited" permissions EW is implementing.

[FluorescentBlack]

I have scoured ballistics charts over the years and the two closest chambers that are near unrelated where I have found near simmilar ballistics are the 30-30 and the .454. It's freaky.

In game. Completley different permission catagories.

[outrider]

by all means, lets have a .458 Lott (500 gr ) .......we'll show those monster bunnies who's boss......

[BCKidd]

Actually, I'd like to see a .408 Cheytac, black and red stock camo. But, I guess the .340 has that covered. Peace.

BCKidd.