Calibre Competition (New Voting Options)

[TurboKid]

Voted for the 7mm caliber. Its one of the ones i enjoy most in game. I also feel that it fits this weapon nicely and would like to try it out on a bolt action since i have it in break action at the moment.

The scout with 7mm and the bipod should make a nice hunting addition.

[TreeKiwi]

Voted for the 7mm caliber. Its one of the ones i enjoy most in game. I also feel that it fits this weapon nicely and would like to try it out on a bolt action since i have it in break action at the moment.

The scout with 7mm and the bipod should make a nice hunting addition.

Bare in mind, if you look at the selection you will see that it is a new 7mm round

[gas56]

I chose the 7-8 mm (all 30 caliber rifles are equated to .308 diameter, but all 30 caliber bullets aren't .308's) versatility because of allowed list in the game. I would choose the caliber of 30-06 (7.62 x 63mm) if they made the choice, but even the Remington 700 series was also big with the 7mm mag, beside other calibers and it's nothing new. Here is what I got in my E-mail today for Veterans day coming up from my gun parts company. Take a look and don't be too surprised.........
https://www.gunpartscorp.com/blog/the-r ... olt-action

[nachthexe]

THE REMINGTON 700 - BACKWOODS TO THE BATTLEFIELD - AMERICA’S NO. 1 BOLT ACTION

The American weapon dream: Possess the same firearms our armed forces have!
This is not only a good hunting weapon, NO this is a SNIPER WEAPON...

And look how well we can describe a Mauser action w/o actually saying it is a Mauser action.

[gas56]

THE REMINGTON 700 - BACKWOODS TO THE BATTLEFIELD - AMERICA’S NO. 1 BOLT ACTION

The American weapon dream: Possess the same firearms our armed forces have!
This is not only a good hunting weapon, NO this is a SNIPER WEAPON...

And look how well we can describe a Mauser action w/o actually saying it is a Mauser action.

I definitely agree, and I like the Remington Mauser bolt action take on in early American guns because it is just great!
and if it was used for a sniper rifle in military service and modified by them over the last century to get the most out of it must be pretty damn accurate and dependable
as a hunting rifle.....one great hunting rifle....
My choice in this gun would be a .300 win mag (7.62×67mm)
When is EW ever going to give us more than 1 shot in the .300 win mag?
Do we really need another 7mm mag? Aren't we satisfied with that ugly Bullpup?.................

[mapache01]

Ok, here's some info about 7mm-08 so let's read

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7mm-08_Remington

I''ll extract what's the info we have to learn about this caliber and what would be expect

The 7mm-08 Remington is a rifle cartridge that is almost a direct copy of a wildcat cartridge developed around 1958 known as the 7mm/308. As these names would suggest, it is the .308 Winchester case necked down to accept 7 mm (.284) bullets with a small increase in case length. Of cartridges based upon the .308, it is the second most popular behind only the .243 Winchester. However, the .308 is more popular than both.[1] In 1980,

With the wide range of bullet weights available, the 7mm-08 is suitable for "varminting, game-hunting, Metallic Silhouette, and long-range shooting."[4] It is also suitable for plains game."[1] For long-range target and metallic silhouette shooting, the "plastic-tipped 162gr A-Max has proven to be very accurate with a 0.625 BC (G1). This A-Max bullet, and the 150gr Sierra Match King, are popular with silhouette shooters."[4]

The 7mm-08 Remington works in most hunting environments, including dense forest areas and large open fields. It has a flatter trajectory than the .308 Winchester and .30-06 Springfield at similar bullet weights because the slightly smaller-diameter 7mm bullet generally has a better ballistic coefficient (BC), and is thus less affected by drag and crosswind while in flight. Its trajectory is comparable to the .270 Winchester.[5]
Its recoil is a bit more than a .243 Win. and less than most loads in a .308 Win. This mild recoil makes it suitable for youth and adults who are new shooters; however, the cartridge serves experienced shooters and hunters equally well.

Here's the big question for Devs, what will be the load and grains for this rifle

The 7mm-08, with appropriate loads, meets the required standard for moose hunting in Sweden, Finland, and Norway. Such loads allow it, for that purpose, to be compared favourably with the 6.5×55mm, 7×57mm, 7×57mmR, .300 Savage, .303 British, and some .308 Winchester and .270 Winchester loads.

With appropriately constructed bullets, the cartridge is usable on elk, black bears and hogs

NOT SUITABLE 3 FOR BEARS ON GAME (Brown, Grizzly, Polar)

It must be stressed, though, that the 7mm-08 Rem. is unsuitable for use on the three big bears—polar, brown, and grizzly—and on other dangerous game. In a self-defensive situation requiring stopping power on dangerous game at close range, use of a larger and heavier caliber is strongly advised.

The flip side of this is that "when you compare heavy bullets, grain for grain, the 7mm-08 offers better ballistics. In other words a 168-grainer fired from a 7mm-08 will exhibit less drop and less windage than a 168gr bullet fired from a .308 Win."
"The 7mm-08 Remington is an efficient round and competes effectively against the 308 Winchester." [11] Jeff Cooper was impressed enough by the 7mm-08 to give it unqualified support for use in Scout rifles -- "A true Scout comes in .308 or 7mm-08".[12] The 7mm-08 with 139-140gr loads does well against 150gr .308 Win. loads, providing good energy levels with usually less recoil than the .308 Win.

In January 2002, Dave Anderson of Guns Magazine compared four of his favorite 7mm cartridges (7×57mm Mauser, .280 Remington, .284 Winchester, and 7mm-08 Rem.), and concluded: "But consider everything -- performance, recoil, rifle size and weight, rifle availability, ammunition availability and selection -- and the winner, rather to my surprise, is the 7mm-08 Remington. Ten years ago, even five years ago, I wouldn't have said that. But this efficient, effective little cartridge is a good one, and it's going to be around for a long time."

Its comparison with the 270 Win. is complicated. Clay Harvey, for instance, says the 7mm-08 is "definitely inferior ballistically." [16] Remington Arms has its 140 grain load producing 2,960 ft/s (900 m/s) which is better than the 2,860 ft/s (870 m/s) produced by the 140-grain 7mm-08 load. The complicating factor is that, according to Edward A. Matunas, the .270 Win. "is not well served by factory ammunition. Velocities often vary widely and frequently are well below advertised levels."[11] An example: Remington's own ballistic tables lists its only 150-grain 270 Win. loading, a Soft Point Core-Lokt (not a Pointed Soft Point Core-Lokt), as having a MV of 2,850 ft/s (870 m/s) and retaining 1,587 fpe at 200 yards.[23] A 7mm-08 load with a more efficient 150gr Nosler Partition at 2,700 ft/s (820 m/s) MV retains 1,790 fpe at 200 yards and 1,525 fpe at 300.[24] Careful handloading with a bullet of higher BC should restore the gain the 270 Win. brings through its larger case. John Barsness says, however, that his wife Eileen has "recently discovered that the 7mm-08 kicks noticeably less than her old favorite the .270 WCF with similar results in the field."

Why not a BAR ShortTrac Stalker in 7mm-08 and The Stalker in .243?? , follow why

Browning offers it in several versions of their box fed lever-action rifle, the BLR, and in their gas-operated semiautomatic rifle called the BAR ShortTrac Stalker. Remington Arms offers a DPMS manufactured version of the AR-10, called the Model R-25, in 7mm-08. The Tikka rifles made by Sako also offers the 7mm-08 throughout their entire line of rifles. Ruger offers a few bolt-action rifles in this former wildcat round as well multiple models from Savage. Kimber, known for their 1911 pistols, offers a number of rifles in the 7mm-08 as well. [28]

[J_Birdman]

Hey all,

Wow, absolutely mind blowing responses and feedback. I have been talking to game designer Pat about it all and we have changed one of the options slightly.
The reason for these calibre choices, as some have worked out, is because we have based this gun off a real life rifle and these are the calibres it comes out with.

However I have changed two things in the poll now, the 7mm has been replaced with 7mm-08 and if this round was selected, we would make a new round in game, i.e not the same as the other 7mm rounds.
The second thing I have done is opened the Poll up so people can change their votes.

Again, it's so awesome to see all the constructive comments and feedback, great stuff!
TK

IMO it would be best to close this pole and start a new one simply because most will think it is the same round as the 7mm Magnum and as such they are voting from the permitted species list.

We can change the poll if you like, however it is open for a month and people can change their votes. I also already have and am going to continue promoting the change in all the normal channels

I think the poll changes should have been already been announced in the last Status Update thread but I agree with others, a brand new poll would much more accurately represent the intent of this thread. If done I suggest it be announced in the SU thread.

Maintain my vote for .243, Agree a list of animals permitted for 7mm-08 will help a lot to decide, other wise you're voting something you don't know

This is an excellent idea.

[nachthexe]

I just want a multi-round .243 useable with some of the newer scopes.
I think most people voted 7mm because the current 7mm Magnum is so good. Pure efficiency vote, which of course they are free to do.
I still wonder how you want to improve prone targeting.

[INTIMID883R]

My problem is if you wanted to add the 7mm-08, then add it to the bottom of the list and leave the 7mm where it was, but don't remove the 7mm and stick in the 7mm-08 in its place after the votes have already been cast. It is simply not the correct way to do things.

[TreeKiwi]

I think the poll changes should have been already been announced in the last Status Update thread but I agree with others, a brand new poll would much more accurately represent the intent of this thread. If done I suggest it be announced in the SU thread.

If the new option was there when the SU was out... of course I would have

Like I have said, it is not ideal, but it is the way the poll is going to be until it closes. I have been watching the results and the only change is slightly more people voting for .243, but the 7mm-08 is still the leading vote.