Spawn mashing solutions

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JimboCrow
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Re: Spawn mashing solutions

Post by JimboCrow »

DYEUZ wrote:
SoftShoe wrote:
JimboCrow wrote: starting a hunt at a tent, or arriving via FT, should be like firing a weapon.

Jimbo nailed it here. This alone would make SM no longer practicable. Whenever you spawn somewhere on a map either by starting a game or FT is should automatically spook a 150m radius. I know that would inconvenience allot of us but those of that dont SM would just have to alter our hunt slightly whereas the SMers would be SOL.
... So , the few times that i got lucky, and saw / heard a nice animal , when i FT to a tent , during a hunt , you want to remove that from me !!? :?
Dyeuz, I too have only made a nice trophy harvest after FT a couple of times, but I HAVE done it, and it didn't exactly feel as it I'd earned it. However, I have VERY OFTEN FT'd and made 4, or 5, or even 6 harvests in very quick succession immediately after arriving. That always struck me as a bit too easy, and a bit of an exploit, whether the devs chose to leave it in on purpose or not.

To me, it's not that 'luck' improves with FT, it's the ease of being teleported into your favorite honey hole without having to sneak in there. Isn't that why they disabled placing tents too close to bait stations? because it would create an exploit? Well, FT into a honey hole isn't all that much different IMHO. If everything scattered when I FT to my favorite trapper's tent, I wouldn't have it planted right beneath my 'Golden Treestand' or my 'TGT Tombstone Tower' I can assure you.

And FT after committing suicide to evade the wait time? That's Webster's definition of an exploit!

I don't want to ruin how anyone plays the game (I've had it done to me here before, and it SUCKS BIG TIME!!!!) or dismiss anyone's style of play by suggesting they change the FT rules. Everything would be given consideration before any changes were ever made anyway, I'm sure. But don't worry, I doubt anything will ever come of it.
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Fletchette
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Re: Spawn mashing solutions

Post by Fletchette »

Got a bit derailed here....Fast travel IS NOT spawn mashing. It doesn't re-spawn new animals. It's an intentionally designed feature in the game, they even charge for it. Spawn mashing is starting repeated short games hoping to spawn animals you can kill quickly without actually hunting, then repeating it over and over. It's an exploit, and NOT intended function. They can't really stop it because of game crashes and stuff, but they've taken several steps over the years to try to deter it. No one can seriously say the designers INTENDED spawn mashing to be a legitimate hunting tactic, and anyone who does is being disingenuous.
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walt133
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Re: Spawn mashing solutions

Post by walt133 »

^^ This!!
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Re: Spawn mashing solutions

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RidgeBack69 wrote:this thread has been side tracked to changing game mechanics. That is exactly what Ron was worried about. This thread was not created to get EW to change anything it was created to for Community Competition's.

I know Ron's intent was not to bring this into that direction but more to make sure it didn't go into it but it seems it had the opposite effect.
Exactly. But, this being a forum, you can almost guarantee that, any thread started to discuss anything pertinent will always turn into a fiasco. I'm glad you started this thread and that for the first few pages things were going well, and we were all trying to make headway with SM'ing in Community Comps. How it went from that to what I'm readin' now, is typical. No more ideas are being discussed it is now a simple bash fest. Too bad, to, 'cause in the beginning I really thought we had somethin' to work with. Thanks for your efforts folks... :roll: Peace.

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"Patience and perseverance, are not an option if you want that trophy, they are a necessity."

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JimboCrow
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Re: Spawn mashing solutions

Post by JimboCrow »

Fletchette wrote:Got a bit derailed here....Fast travel IS NOT spawn mashing. It doesn't re-spawn new animals. It's an intentionally designed feature in the game, they even charge for it. Spawn mashing is starting repeated short games hoping to spawn animals you can kill quickly without actually hunting, then repeating it over and over. It's an exploit, and NOT intended function. They can't really stop it because of game crashes and stuff, but they've taken several steps over the years to try to deter it. No one can seriously say the designers INTENDED spawn mashing to be a legitimate hunting tactic, and anyone who does is being disingenuous.
I was trying to find an instance where someone implied spawn mashing was an intended function, but I couldn't find one. ;) However, I think the point Ron was trying to make (and I agree) is that there is a similarity between 'mashing by restarting' and 'mashing by fast travelling,' the only difference being the new spawn EACH time. Both can be used as exploits, except one can get you DQ'd for repeated short hunts, while the other lets you escape scrutiny (yet accomplish very similar objectives) by hitting SEVERAL locations quickly first, and THEN restarting with a new spawn 'when the coast is clear.' Sort of a "Spawn Mashing 2.0' or "Spawn Mashing Revisited" or "Spawn Mashing with a Side of Tent Crashing" you might say. I'm not sure which one is worse, but for my money I'd bet on the latter for having a better success rate. #PayToWin.
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Fletchette
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Re: Spawn mashing solutions

Post by Fletchette »

JimboCrow wrote:
Fletchette wrote:Got a bit derailed here....Fast travel IS NOT spawn mashing. It doesn't re-spawn new animals. It's an intentionally designed feature in the game, they even charge for it. Spawn mashing is starting repeated short games hoping to spawn animals you can kill quickly without actually hunting, then repeating it over and over. It's an exploit, and NOT intended function. They can't really stop it because of game crashes and stuff, but they've taken several steps over the years to try to deter it. No one can seriously say the designers INTENDED spawn mashing to be a legitimate hunting tactic, and anyone who does is being disingenuous.
I was trying to find an instance where someone implied spawn mashing was an intended function, but I couldn't find one. ;) However, I think the point Ron was trying to make (and I agree) is that there is a similarity between 'mashing by restarting' and 'mashing by fast travelling,' the only difference being the new spawn EACH time. Both can be used as exploits, except one can get you DQ'd for repeated short hunts, while the other lets you escape scrutiny (yet accomplish very similar objectives) by hitting SEVERAL locations quickly first, and THEN restarting with a new spawn 'when the coast is clear.' Sort of a "Spawn Mashing 2.0' or "Spawn Mashing Revisited" or "Spawn Mashing with a Side of Tent Crashing" you might say. I'm not sure which one is worse, but for my money I'd bet on the latter for having a better success rate. #PayToWin.
Come one, Jimbo, you literally just took the word "spawn" out of spawn-mashing to try to make your point.... :lol:....And you also seem to have changed the meaning of the word "mashing", which means to do something repeatedly in a short period of time (mashing keys on a keyboard). Since you can only fast-travel once immediately after your initial spawn, it's the exact opposite of mashing.

There is NO NEW SPAWN when you fast-travel, so it's not SPAWN-mashing 2.0 or 3.0 or 99.0. It's fast-travel, and it's by design. It's not an exploit since they INTENTIONALLY added the function to do it to the game, and limited the function to once per 1/2 hour real-time so you can't just jump around the map every few minutes to prevent "tent crashing". Now killing yourself on purpose to avoid the restriction IS an exploit, but doing it once per 1/2 hour real-time is a designed feature. Whether you, or I, or anyone, agrees with it is another issue entirely, but the Devs clearly intended it to work the way it does, since they obviously spent considerable time writing the code to make it work. And designing tents, and selling them as fast-travel destinations.

Suicide fast travel was an unintended consequence of introducing fall damage before VDB was released. It's an exploit that people figured out to get around the 1/2 hour restriction.

Surely you're not suggesting that doing 1 or 2 fast-travels in a 1 hour real-time game is the same thing as spawn-mashing 10-15 new games in that same hour. That's ridiculous and you know it. They are not even close to the same thing.

Now for the "intended" thing (implied or not), follow me here, it involves the word "exploit" that's been frequently used in this thread. Pretty much by definition the word exploit is about "intention". If the designers intended a thing to work a certain way (intended gameplay), then doing it is NOT an exploit. If they didn't intend a thing to be done, then doing it IS an exploit. It's really that simple. When people start referring to spawn-mashing as a "style" of play, particularly in this context of comps, then they are saying it's something the Dev's "intended" to be done. It's not, and they've not only said so in the past, but they taken steps to deter it, like setting attempt limits a few years ago for that expressed purpose. Unfortunately it's an exploit that's very difficult to prevent without causing several other problems, which is what this thread was suppose to be discussing.....Preventing spawn mashing in comps. Not tents, not fast-travel....Spawn Mashing.
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JimboCrow
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Re: Spawn mashing solutions

Post by JimboCrow »

Fletchette wrote:...Spawn Mashing.
OK, you've made your point. This thread is about spawn mashing, not fast travelling, so I'm off topic. Fair enough. But it's a discussion, and I'm not filibustering, so you needn't invoke closure on me, or get out the Webster's, you bloodless old pedant you! ;)

I believe multiple FT's, via repeated suicides, in 1 hour real time, is also unintended, and is used in conjunction with, and like, spawn mashing, but without the restarts, so I chimed in. OK Judge Wapner? :? "Holy moly, what a grouch!" "Bailiff, whack his peepee!!" "Ouch!" :lol:
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Re: Spawn mashing solutions

Post by SoftShoe »

DYEUZ wrote: Most of the respected members , the well known good members , have said many times that they respect the host and play by the book . It is not difficult to have their eyes , added to the host / UHC staff, to help detect the SM and others suspicious behavior . So, i'm not even worried about that . There will always be someone to check these guys .
This is where the rubber meets the road & the only true solution isnt it?

This thread has largely been about making a change to the game that would stop/limit SM. My point is that it isnt possible to make a change to the game without impacting (probably negatively) everyone so its best to leave well enough alone & keep on doing what we have been doing.
People enrolled in these comps can expect if they are doing well in the comp other members are going to be looking at their hunt history.

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Re: Spawn mashing solutions

Post by RidgeBack69 »

This thread was never about making changes to the game!!!
It was about finding suitable changes to the Community Competition Rules and or automated parts of UHC that may or may not be able to be changed that would make it easier for Host to deal with the problem.
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Re: Spawn mashing solutions

Post by SoftShoe »

I know what your intentions were when you started this thread but if you look at the suggestions that have been offered they have largely been centered on changing the game. Ergo my comment.

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