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caledonianblues
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Re: UHC Apps | Competition Generator

Postby caledonianblues » April 8th, 2018, 8:35 am

Generalkommendant wrote:Would it be much work for EW to state the fur variation in the in-game harvest sheet? I really can't see why this hasn't been implemented already because for me, as an observer, it seems it'd be very easy(?).

It probably wouldn't be a huge job, but there are countless examples of things that probably wouldn't be a huge job to implement, until you start looking at them in more detail. Someone first has to decide that showing the fur variation on the harvest screen is a priority and then it will get put on the roadmap and passed to a developer. So if I were to put my producer hat on and play devil's advocate, I would ask you these questions:

  • Is this is a bug? If yes, can it be reproduced? Is the underlying cause known? How serious is it on a scale of 1-10 and is it resulting in game-breaking crashes?
  • If it's a feature request how long will it take to implement, and is this something we can monetise?
  • Will this feature or bug fix require testing? If so, how much?

If we take the fur variation example, here are the answers:

  • No, it's not a bug.
  • It's a feature request which I suspect someone would need to spend time looking at before being able to give an accurate timescale to implement. It could not realistically be monetised without generating disapproval and negative feedback.
  • Yes, it would require a small amount of testing with examples of one of each texture.

So then you have to decide how it ranks in comparison to the Whiterime Ridge issues that are causing a lot of people grief, the launcher problems that cause frustration and probably turn new players away from the game, and other bugs which aren't game-breaking but are definitely bugs rather than feature requests, such as people not receiving rewards for competitions, people receiving the wrong trophies in competitions, dogs not showing in mutiplayer, not being able to harvest random animals, weird bugged scores appearing on the leaderboards, etc.

Like I said, I'm playing devil's advocate. I too think the fur variation should be shown on the harvest screen since it would probably promote more taxidermy sales. I just don't think it's even on their radar because it's not a bug and it really isn't a priority in the grand scheme of things.
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Re: UHC Apps | Competition Generator

Postby Generalkommendant » April 8th, 2018, 8:47 am

Thanks for an extensive answer. I don't think I'm the only one appreciating reading that answer.
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Re: UHC Apps | Competition Generator

Postby stancomputerhunter » April 8th, 2018, 10:06 am

All of that said, David, the dev who designed the Feral Goats didn't do the community or EW a favor. He/she made fur variations that aren't rares in the normal sense since the game started, and made horns variations that mean nothing because the only truly trophy animal is a horizontal twist horn variation or an Albino. Even a magnificent set of vertical twist horns scores tops 220 or so, and will never be a valued trophy. IMHO the dev should have left the piebalds as rares and decreased their numbers, and there should be equal scoring for the each type of horn on the goats.

Could you elaborate on this comment.."Who determines what's a rare and what's a fur variation? They're community definitions after all." I'm not aware that the community was involved in the process. It's just something EW has decided when a species is developed. There are no piebald Ibex for example. Is that based on real life or no one wanted to make the fur? There are no Piebald Wild Boar, yet there are Piebald Feral Hogs. I don't understand how the community had anything to do with those.

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Re: UHC Apps | Competition Generator

Postby Tod1d » April 8th, 2018, 10:58 am

stancomputerhunter wrote:All of that said, David, the dev who designed the Feral Goats didn't do the community or EW a favor. He/she made fur variations that aren't rares in the normal sense since the game started, and made horns variations that mean nothing because the only truly trophy animal is a horizontal twist horn variation or an Albino. Even a magnificent set of vertical twist horns scores tops 220 or so, and will never be a valued trophy. IMHO the dev should have left the piebalds as rares and decreased their numbers, and there should be equal scoring for the each type of horn on the goats.

Could you elaborate on this comment.."Who determines what's a rare and what's a fur variation? They're community definitions after all." I'm not aware that the community was involved in the process. It's just something EW has decided when a species is developed. There are no piebald Ibex for example. Is that based on real life or no one wanted to make the fur? There are no Piebald Wild Boar, yet there are Piebald Feral Hogs. I don't understand how the community had anything to do with those.


EW doesn't designate anything as "Rare". Yes, they decide the textures & the distribution of the textures. But the concept of "Rare" is determined by us (the community).
Hoocairs collected the information & included it in the wiki. Perhaps he will chime in and offer some wisdom?
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Re: UHC Apps | Competition Generator

Postby BucksNBuffalo » April 8th, 2018, 11:03 am

What determines the rares and fur variations is nothing that is community driven, they are based on real life anomalies. All animals in the animal kingdom have a rare genetic trait that can impact them, and these are Albiism, Melanism, Piebald, and Leucism. Some animals have the certain defect anomalies more than others, such as why for example you see and hear more about Black Leopards, which are in fact Leopards affected by melanism. A quick look of the definitions of each trait will help to understand why they are whet they are. These traits also have adverse effect on the animals overall health. For example. Albinos have a very difficult time in sunlight, too much can kill them, along with other health issues. Other variations, such as for example Cinnamon Black Bears, are actually quite a common trait in Black Bears, along with Glacier, Chocolate, and Blonde. Think of fur variations as hair color such as on humans. Is it rare to see a person with brown hair? Of course not.
So really, it is the real world that EW used to define what is rare and what is not. We really only have 4 types of rares in the game, and those are albinos, melanistics (that includes silver-tips because they are the melanistic varieties), Piebalds and Leucistics. The thing with the Feral goats is there should only be Albinos, based on goats real life genetics. Melanism is not a very prominent trait in them, and goats come in a very wide variety of color patterns, so the term Piebald never once should have been used for them or retained. It was pointed out back when the goats were released.
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Re: UHC Apps | Competition Generator

Postby Tod1d » April 8th, 2018, 11:10 am

BucksNBuffalo wrote:What determines the rares and fur variations is nothing that is community driven


What is labeled as "rare" in the wiki was not decided by EW. As far as I know, they don't use the word "Rare" anywhere in the game.

So really, it is the real world that EW used to define what is rare and what is not.


You could say, "it is the real world that THE COMMUNITY used to define what is rare and what is not."

Or, you could focus it on the game and use Hoocairs definition...

Fur variation = This variation is different to the common fur/plumage, but still not considered a rare. The chance for seeing such an animal is higher than 1:100.
Rare = This variation is very rare and can be considered a trophy when found. The chance for seeing* rares is more around the 1:1000 range (estimation based on players' statistics).

  • Seeing, not harvesting or spotting. Many animals seen (e.g. in a herd) are never spotted, let alone harvested.
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Re: UHC Apps | Competition Generator

Postby BucksNBuffalo » April 8th, 2018, 11:17 am

Tod, left you a PM bud ;)
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Re: UHC Apps | Competition Generator

Postby caledonianblues » April 8th, 2018, 11:38 am

stancomputerhunter wrote:Could you elaborate on this comment.."Who determines what's a rare and what's a fur variation? They're community definitions after all." I'm not aware that the community was involved in the process. It's just something EW has decided when a species is developed. There are no piebald Ibex for example. Is that based on real life or no one wanted to make the fur? There are no Piebald Wild Boar, yet there are Piebald Feral Hogs. I don't understand how the community had anything to do with those.

I realise Expansive Worlds creates the variations and decides whether a species comes in variations such as albino, piebald, etc. Presumably based on whether such a specimen exists in real life. My question was what makes a piebald feral goat just a fur variation when a deer of the exact same texture is a rare? If asked the question, would Expansive Worlds confirm that piebald goats are rare? I genuinely don't know. I'm just curious. As it stands right now, one animal is using a texture which, for every other species makes it rare, but the community are determining that it's just a fur variation. It doesn't bother me either way and I'm not questioning whether it's correct or incorrect, I'm just trying to understand the process.

If you read this status update you'll see that HooCairs questioned why piebald goats were so frequently found when they should be rare. You can also see the community asking for piebald goats not to be made rare because they enjoyed seeing the different furs. So, who really decided whether piebald goats are rare? ;)
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Re: UHC Apps | Competition Generator

Postby HooCairs » April 8th, 2018, 8:21 pm

Tod1d wrote:EW doesn't designate anything as "Rare". Yes, they decide the textures & the distribution of the textures. But the concept of "Rare" is determined by us (the community).
Hoocairs collected the information & included it in the wiki. Perhaps he will chime in and offer some wisdom?

I don't think I have ever received any info from EW whether a certain type would be rare or a variation. For every animal I try to determine this based on their frequency of occurrence. I shoot a lot animals myself and also check the forum and can usually tell which furs occur often and which won't.

caledonianblues wrote:If you read this status update you'll see that HooCairs questioned why piebald goats were so frequently found when they should be rare. You can also see the community asking for piebald goats not to be made rare because they enjoyed seeing the different furs. So, who really decided whether piebald goats are rare? ;)

Checking the history of the Wiki page it seems I was too fast and made the goats all rares at first except the common and then went back later and changed most of them to being only fur variations. I can't remember ever seeing an albino goat, that's why this type still shows as rare.

So yes, what are "rares" are determined by the community. :)
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Re: UHC Apps | Competition Generator

Postby HooCairs » April 9th, 2018, 3:16 am

I didn't take the time last night to check as it was late already, but there are accounts where an EW person mentions "rares" or "rarity".

Some examples:
https://forum.thehunter.com/viewtopic.p ... re#p215986
https://forum.thehunter.com/viewtopic.p ... re#p331438
etc.

This one from the first EW CEO was pretty interesting:
https://forum.thehunter.com/viewtopic.p ... re#p309573
Stefan Pettersson wrote:You're on the right track in the discussion, but let me chip in to reduce the confusion... ;)

The bear color variations are indeed pretty common (the glacier is the most uncommon). They are noted on the statistics page. The "true rares" work in the same way, but are indeed more rare (piebald, melanistic, albino). Then there are also simple variations like the texture on the hogs earlier in this thread (which are not on the statistics page, since they are not considered "special" enough).


Feel free to dig more. You can look for posts from former or current community managers, CEOs or programmers such as
LeMetatron
Stefan Pettersson
Lion Martinez
Björn Öjlert
Robert Arnesson
Daniel G Gustafsson
Peter Johansson
EW_Stefan
Alena Rybik
EW_Graham
TreeKiwi

My observation in all those years in this forum is that in the early days EW was a lot more transparent about game mechanics. Especially Stefan and Lion shared a lot of insight knowledge.

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