Status Update 16th June 2017

The latest news and announcements about theHunter provided by the developers
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drakle
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Re: Status Update 16th June 2017

Postby drakle » June 19th, 2017, 8:08 am

Alena Rybik wrote:
Pittie wrote:
what do you think about ptarmigan missions and competitions? Would you like to have one set for all three of them, same as we have it for ducks? Or have different sets for all three of them? We are a bit on the fence about that one


I don't know if these competitions are a good Investment into the game. All people I know don't like these birds and they would not play ptarmigan competitions.
Perhaps it would be better to give us first comps for the other species (dall sheep, grizzly, wolf etc.)?


Grizzly is being tested and coming soon. Wolf is in the works. Dall sheep will be in the next round of the community design competition, together with goats. We want to add competitions and missions for all species, sooner or later, and ptarmigans are a bit of a pickle, that's why I am asking for your feedback. Plus I know people who love hunting them :)


Will the Polar Bear be included in the next game design comp, since they've lost their restrictions?


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Ravenousfox
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Re: Status Update 16th June 2017

Postby Ravenousfox » June 19th, 2017, 8:34 am

With the Ptarmigan competitions make a few competitions count as an entry when shot on the ground.
I find Ptarmigan more fun to shoot on the ground with an Air Rifle than anything else. :lol:
I have over 1337 kills with my Longbow at 100% kill rate.
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TheColton
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Re: Status Update 16th June 2017

Postby TheColton » June 19th, 2017, 4:02 pm

Alena Rybik wrote:On a side note; what do you think about ptarmigan missions and competitions? Would you like to have one set for all three of them, same as we have it for ducks? Or have different sets for all three of them? We are a bit on the fence about that one.


As someone who likes to participate in competions i wouldnt mind a full set for all three of them, but i also get why you are thinking about putting them all together in one set. They'd probably be in the group of the less frequenced competitions, especially when they get too complicated. HooCairs point is right too. Unlike the ducks they are all in different reserves, which makes it harder to put them in a two day multi species competition. My suggestion would be this:

Take the 3 highest score competions plus the 3 highest average weight competitions for the ptarmigans (which obviously are the fan favorites here) and add one cool other comp for each of them. That would make a pack of 9 ptarmigan competitions and the rotation would make sure, that they dont always fall on the same day of the week.
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Lamphunter
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Re: Status Update 16th June 2017

Postby Lamphunter » June 20th, 2017, 3:32 am

Hawkeye wrote:Good update. I'm loving the new sunglasses effect, and can't wait to try my hand at some RM elk competitions. Looking forward to seeing the Rustic lodge, and visiting lodges in SP mode. Exciting stuff!

In the meantime, we would like to ask you whether you participate in our regular competitions. If yes, what are you favourite ones?

I do participate as often as I can. My favorite competitions are just the simple highest score comps with no restricting rules. The average of 3's are okay too, but require a bit more time investment. I never participate in long range competitions or "kill the most" competitions.

waiora wrote:MAKE ALL TROPHY COMPETITIONS MULTIPLAYER. There is no advantage for playing MP. So many people cry about MP comps, and how it benefits those who play as a team... ALL events comps are MP in the last year, and the same few people are always in the top 10. only 1 person can shoot any give animal. You only compete vs 1 player on a leader board. MP would even be a disadvantage for competitions that require multiple animals, because of attempts vs good spans ratio.


Sorry, but there are numerous ways you can exploit the competition system in MP. I won't state them here because it's against CoC to discuss specific exploits. It shouldn't take much thought to come up with a few though.

Looking at the numbers, nearly half of the player-base (43%) plays ONLY in SP. I don't think it would be wise to alienate those players by changing those competitions to MP. It's also a bit surprising that only 19% play primarily for competitions. That's a lower number than I would have thought. So that begs the question, does it make good business sense to pour resources into the competition system at this point?


+1
Thanks for the update Alena and welcome Katarina :)
I also mostly prefer the simple SP comps with not too many restrictions or even no restrictions at all. Wouldn't like to see SP comps being merged with MP. It would be really unfair to the SP ones.
Cooperation in a reserve gives you a n advantage for sure. ;)
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waiora
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Re: Status Update 16th June 2017

Postby waiora » June 20th, 2017, 8:21 am

Lamphunter wrote:I also mostly prefer the simple SP comps with not too many restrictions or even no restrictions at all. Wouldn't like to see SP comps being merged with MP. It would be really unfair to the SP ones.
Cooperation in a reserve gives you a n advantage for sure. ;)


How will your cooperation with say 3 friends give you an advantage over me?

Lets say you or your team get good RNG for some decent trophy and you guys shoot it, I couldn't care less who shot it. only 1 person can go on the leader board for that animal.

If i get decent RNG I will find my animal and post it.

So your advantage is you guys might find it a little faster? But if all of you actually want to win you need to go do that multiple times any ways. I would like to see you helping other people grind a competition for 2 more days after you already placed ...

Im not talking about people who just spawn mash attempts to get their animals. If they are reworking the competition system they need to account for that. Which has some very simple solutions, like competitions being always active, the same way all of David's competitions worked. If you think 20/30 attempts at spawn mashing is a good advantage, that is also fine. and that will lock those players out of other species comps.

The main reason people cry because they "give teams an advantage" is because people dont want to compete, they want easy wins with less competitors to farm em$. Playing in a team has as many disadvantages as advantages, in 3 years of winning countless events only for trophy format, I only chose a handful of times to actually play with 1 teammate.

Alternatively they can add a "team" format where both players are entered by the team name and an attempt is lost every time either player enters a reserve with that species. But i really doubt the rework would be more than a few small changes to silence the forums.

So what exactly is the big advantage you will have with a 2 or 3 man team vs me if there was some event we competed in right now, Lets say Average score of your 3 largest elk. I would be very confident I can beat/compete equally vs your team.
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gas56
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Re: Status Update 16th June 2017

Postby gas56 » June 20th, 2017, 9:42 am

Alena Rybik wrote:On a side note; what do you think about ptarmigan missions and competitions? Would you like to have one set for all three of them, same as we have it for ducks? Or have different sets for all three of them? We are a bit on the fence about that one.


1 set for all 3 sounds just fine for missions,.. they all have the same hunting technique anyways.
It's just nice to get the $GM for missions done to get some consumables equipment, I'm always running low on that stuff........ :lol:

Competitions on the other hand should have their own set.
As for giving more opportunities for players to win individual animal comps and trophies.

Have a good 1....................
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Re: Status Update 16th June 2017

Postby Mrmr123 » June 20th, 2017, 11:12 am

waiora wrote:
Lamphunter wrote:I also mostly prefer the simple SP comps with not too many restrictions or even no restrictions at all. Wouldn't like to see SP comps being merged with MP. It would be really unfair to the SP ones.
Cooperation in a reserve gives you a n advantage for sure. ;)


How will your cooperation with say 3 friends give you an advantage over me?

Lets say you or your team get good RNG for some decent trophy and you guys shoot it, I couldn't care less who shot it. only 1 person can go on the leader board for that animal.

If i get decent RNG I will find my animal and post it.

So your advantage is you guys might find it a little faster? But if all of you actually want to win you need to go do that multiple times any ways. I would like to see you helping other people grind a competition for 2 more days after you already placed ...

Im not talking about people who just spawn mash attempts to get their animals. If they are reworking the competition system they need to account for that. Which has some very simple solutions, like competitions being always active, the same way all of David's competitions worked. If you think 20/30 attempts at spawn mashing is a good advantage, that is also fine. and that will lock those players out of other species comps.

The main reason people cry because they "give teams an advantage" is because people dont want to compete, they want easy wins with less competitors to farm em$. Playing in a team has as many disadvantages as advantages, in 3 years of winning countless events only for trophy format, I only chose a handful of times to actually play with 1 teammate.

Alternatively they can add a "team" format where both players are entered by the team name and an attempt is lost every time either player enters a reserve with that species. But i really doubt the rework would be more than a few small changes to silence the forums.

So what exactly is the big advantage you will have with a 2 or 3 man team vs me if there was some event we competed in right now, Lets say Average score of your 3 largest elk. I would be very confident I can beat/compete equally vs your team.


Let me try to explain to you some of the advantages of MP VS SP comps, i will use WHI and ELK as an examples, from My experience there is at least 1 good session out of 3, and by good i mean it had high score animals but not necessarily a leaderbaord one, you can feel this with yote hunting for example, and usually a 10 sessions is more than enough to find a good big yote if not several to compete with them!

Now lets just assume there is a max of 20 bulls elk in WHI, for me to find all of them in SP i will need like 4-8 hours RLT, but a MP session with 8 people can find them all in 30 minutes to 1 hour, so while RNG is the same for SP session and MP session, the ability to kill or find all specific animal in very short time makes it clear that if we both hit a jackpot session, in SP i am limited to spotting 4-10 bulls only ( doing normal session of 1-2 hours ) so my chances to find the big boy in that big jackpot session is not the same for MP people as they will ALWAYS find him in that same big jackpot session. so they have the ability to clear out several jackpot sessions in short time but me alone cant do the same.

Hope this makes some sense when it comes to RNG, thats why SP vs SP is okay and MP vs MP is okay but not SP vs MP.

Also some other stuff that comes to mind is MP environment some times its buggy and in some games you can just run all around and not spook any animals and get too close to touch them and kill them but this never happen to all animals in SP mode as far as i know.
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Lamphunter
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Re: Status Update 16th June 2017

Postby Lamphunter » June 20th, 2017, 11:35 am

waiora wrote:
Lamphunter wrote:I also mostly prefer the simple SP comps with not too many restrictions or even no restrictions at all. Wouldn't like to see SP comps being merged with MP. It would be really unfair to the SP ones.
Cooperation in a reserve gives you a n advantage for sure. ;)


How will your cooperation with say 3 friends give you an advantage over me?

Lets say you or your team get good RNG for some decent trophy and you guys shoot it, I couldn't care less who shot it. only 1 person can go on the leader board for that animal.

If i get decent RNG I will find my animal and post it.

So your advantage is you guys might find it a little faster? But if all of you actually want to win you need to go do that multiple times any ways. I would like to see you helping other people grind a competition for 2 more days after you already placed ...

Im not talking about people who just spawn mash attempts to get their animals. If they are reworking the competition system they need to account for that. Which has some very simple solutions, like competitions being always active, the same way all of David's competitions worked. If you think 20/30 attempts at spawn mashing is a good advantage, that is also fine. and that will lock those players out of other species comps.

The main reason people cry because they "give teams an advantage" is because people dont want to compete, they want easy wins with less competitors to farm em$. Playing in a team has as many disadvantages as advantages, in 3 years of winning countless events only for trophy format, I only chose a handful of times to actually play with 1 teammate.

Alternatively they can add a "team" format where both players are entered by the team name and an attempt is lost every time either player enters a reserve with that species. But i really doubt the rework would be more than a few small changes to silence the forums.

So what exactly is the big advantage you will have with a 2 or 3 man team vs me if there was some event we competed in right now, Lets say Average score of your 3 largest elk. I would be very confident I can beat/compete equally vs your team.


So a single player has the same possibility to find a high scoring animal with 2,3,4,5,6,7 or even 8 players together scattered in a reserve searching for a winning trophy in a comp? They have already agreed who collects the winning trophy.
Then they all participate to another different high scoring comp doing the same thing, with the only difference that the other winning trophy is not collected by the hunter that collected the previous one but someone else from the same team. And so on...
And for yr info, i'm old enough not to cry for a game or to be scared to compete with you or anybody else in a game.
It's just having fun!
So, as long as there are competitions, it would be nice for every participant to have the same possibilities to find a good trophy, luck excluded of course, so that fun is not compromised.
Have fun!
Peace
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waiora
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Re: Status Update 16th June 2017

Postby waiora » June 20th, 2017, 12:50 pm

Mrmr123 wrote:Let me try to explain to you some of the advantages of MP VS SP comps, i will use WHI and ELK as an examples, from My experience there is at least 1 good session out of 3, and by good i mean it had high score animals but not necessarily a leaderbaord one, you can feel this with yote hunting for example, and usually a 10 sessions is more than enough to find a good big yote if not several to compete with them!

Now lets just assume there is a max of 20 bulls elk in WHI, for me to find all of them in SP i will need like 4-8 hours RLT, but a MP session with 8 people can find them all in 30 minutes to 1 hour, so while RNG is the same for SP session and MP session, the ability to kill or find all specific animal in very short time makes it clear that if we both hit a jackpot session, in SP i am limited to spotting 4-10 bulls only ( doing normal session of 1-2 hours ) so my chances to find the big boy in that big jackpot session is not the same for MP people as they will ALWAYS find him in that same big jackpot session. so they have the ability to clear out several jackpot sessions in short time but me alone cant do the same.

Hope this makes some sense when it comes to RNG, thats why SP vs SP is okay and MP vs MP is okay but not SP vs MP.

Also some other stuff that comes to mind is MP environment some times its buggy and in some games you can just run all around and not spook any animals and get too close to touch them and kill them but this never happen to all animals in SP mode as far as i know.


So you proved it takes 8 people less time to find potential spawns(which i already pointed out in the OP). Now how long does it take those 8 people to find trophy animals for each player in that group? or are you in some perfect group where they all help you, and you will be the only person ever winning anything?

It does not take 4-8 hours to hunt elk on WHI in SP, you don't have to shoot ever bull on the map, an experienced player can eliminate most animals by tracking alone, even with elk. So for me in SP it would take about 2-3 hours per hunt to go through the bull elks on WHI I want to shoot or spot at least, and elk is probably the worst animal in the game to make use of tracking skills. With coyotes I can clear WHI alone in less than 2 hours, both islands.

So if its taking you 30 mins to an hour to find a good animal for each player by your example, Each member in your group might get 1 every 4-8 hours, I will get one every 6-9 hours. Hardly a huge advantage...

With species that are more tracking friendly that tiny advantage gets much smaller and becomes a disadvantage because i get the full use out of all 10 my attempts, I dont share the spawns with 8 other people.

Now look at my example. Lets use your same scenaroi on EU rabbit as an example I can find most of the rabbits on BRR in about a 90min hunt. And i dont have to share them with anyone, so I can efficiently find 500+ animals in good time. From 500+ Eu rabbits i will shoot probably 6-8 that are potentially winning size. Your 8man group wont have a chance to compete efficiently in EU rabbit comp because time is much less of a factor and all your group will accomplish reducing the number of animals you get by a factor of your group size. You will shoot maybe 1, good luck placing on EU rabbit comps with those chances

The same holds for all species other than waterfowl. If animals are more "trackable" it slightly favors SP, if they have less relation between trophy/weight it will slightly favor MP. but its by NO means a huge advantage to either. Now you can go further and look at which animals fit that mold. Reindeer/Elk/Moose are pretty much the only 3 species where tracking provides you with almost no info. All the other deer species have a decent relation between weight and trophy size.

MP on trophy competitions will indeed impact all players but not nearly as extreme as you make it out to be, if anything it will promote larger MP groups for Reindeer moose elk bison, and smaller or SP for the weight based scoring animals. It will also vary based on the size of the reserve, Muledeer on TgT might be better with a 4+ group where mule on loggers SP or 2 people at most is needed.

Like everyone else I also want to win, I guess the big difference is I will find the best way to win with what is in my control, rather than care about what everyone else is doing.

Having MP comps is GOOD for the game, Its highly requested and competition between players is a good thing. No one likes winning 10 player pool grind competitions, they only do it for the easy em$ not because its fun, or they want to. The way competitions are now is not what they were designed to be.

PS none of my examples include people exploiting attempts with MP, we ALL know its a problem that needs solving before that can even consider MP competitions.
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Mrmr123
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Re: Status Update 16th June 2017

Postby Mrmr123 » June 20th, 2017, 1:09 pm

First of all i DARE you to spot all 20 bulls elk in WHI in 2-3 hours :) i did it in the past and it takes 4 hours at best to spot them all while running with some luck, and you still dont get the 1 vs 8 thingy, i dont say all 8 will have 400+ elk, i am saying 8 players in MP can finish scanning for elk in WH in 30 minutes to one hour, each person being responsible for certain area on that map. in other words they can spot all 20 bulls in 30 minutes and then start new session... u see where this will lead?

U mentioned small animals like rabbits, those dont interest me and yes it will not have much difference with small stuff like ducks, it doesnt matter SP vs MP to them.

And for your information i am a person who wants to see MP comps, been asking that for ages, but mixing SP with MP is big NONO for me at least for big animals.

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