Status Update 15th September 2016

The latest news and announcements about theHunter provided by the developers
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caledonianblues
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Re: Status Update 15th September 2016

Post by caledonianblues »

Beano8U wrote:Well. Maybe an overhaul should be on the cards then? Before any other new things are added (after the new reserve, of course). Who else would like to see my dream?
Before any other new things are added? There are two flaws with that proposal. The first being that some players might not be happy to sit around for a couple of years waiting for new content. That's not an exaggeration, two years is an educated (and optimistic) guess as to how long it would take to migrate everything from the current engine to the new engine. Unless of course a watered-down version of theHunter on a shiny new engine, but with a fraction of the content and functionality would be adequate. It sure wouldn't be for me. The second flaw is that I doubt memberships alone would cover the development costs. I know not every player owns everything in the store, and that even without new content being released, existing content would still sell. I just don't think a break from content creation (reserves, animals, weapons, world items and so on) would bode well for the monthly sales figures. I really don't.

Don't get me wrong, I would love nothing more than to turn on theHunter one day and watch it fire up in a modern engine that takes advantage of my hardware, looks incredible and runs perfectly optimised. I just know that the amount work involved in such a project would be unimaginable. Unless, like I said above, they released a cut-down version of the game with a fraction of the content, reserves, animals, etc. I'm just not prepared to sacrifice the reserves, species and vast amount of content just for the visuals. It's the gameplay and the constantly evolving nature of theHunter that has kept me hooked all these years. That and the community. If it was all about visuals, for me, there are plenty other games on Steam that could tick that box. Unfortunately none of them capture my attention like theHunter.

But yes, to answer your question, I would like to see your dream.
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Beano8U
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Re: Status Update 15th September 2016

Post by Beano8U »

I understand an engine is an engine. I am a mechanic by trade. But I also know computers are similar, an engine needs a computer these days. Parameters can be adjusted, in both cases. A PC or an engine.
It cant be that hard surely? I realise "the engine" in this case, is a program. But still, surely a few parameters could be adjusted in said engine?

Edit:
I do see where you are coming from though after thinking about it. It would create a disadvantage to those that can cannot render all the animals and have been a part of theHunter through membership etc.
Sorry, for the above outburst, without prior thought.

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L3M182
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Re: Status Update 15th September 2016

Post by L3M182 »

Hawkeye wrote:
Beano8U wrote: the animal rendering distance increase wouldn't be as taxing as more polygons on screen even if you do have more animals on screen due to a further rendering distance, surely.
Actually, the rendering distance is an engine limitation & can not be increased. That information has come directly from the development team many times over the years.

if im not mistaken, im sure one of the devs said its entirely possible to increase it. infact im sure he said it was easy. just it increases requirements by a fair bit just for a marginal increase in render range.
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L3M182
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Re: Status Update 15th September 2016

Post by L3M182 »

caledonianblues wrote:
Beano8U wrote:Well. Maybe an overhaul should be on the cards then? Before any other new things are added (after the new reserve, of course). Who else would like to see my dream?
Before any other new things are added? There are two flaws with that proposal. The first being that some players might not be happy to sit around for a couple of years waiting for new content. That's not an exaggeration, two years is an educated (and optimistic) guess as to how long it would take to migrate everything from the current engine to the new engine. Unless of course a watered-down version of theHunter on a shiny new engine, but with a fraction of the content and functionality would be adequate. It sure wouldn't be for me. The second flaw is that I doubt memberships alone would cover the development costs. I know not every player owns everything in the store, and that even without new content being released, existing content would still sell. I just don't think a break from content creation (reserves, animals, weapons, world items and so on) would bode well for the monthly sales figures. I really don't.

Don't get me wrong, I would love nothing more than to turn on theHunter one day and watch it fire up in a modern engine that takes advantage of my hardware, looks incredible and runs perfectly optimised. I just know that the amount work involved in such a project would be unimaginable. Unless, like I said above, they released a cut-down version of the game with a fraction of the content, reserves, animals, etc. I'm just not prepared to sacrifice the reserves, species and vast amount of content just for the visuals. It's the gameplay and the constantly evolving nature of theHunter that has kept me hooked all these years. That and the community. If it was all about visuals, for me, there are plenty other games on Steam that could tick that box. Unfortunately none of them capture my attention like theHunter.

But yes, to answer your question, I would like to see your dream.


their is a 3rd option. that being use the new version of the current engine used for the new just cause(they already have it inhouse. its on one of the AMAs). theoretically the whole game could be moved over to that platform "as is". still allot of work but nowhere near as big a task as a full remake. So we'ed have a new engine, the game would look identical at first but on a much more solid modern foundation, then you build from their, with a mix of releasing new content and remodeling and remastering old content and features. i think thats the only option for any prospect of a long lifespan for thehunter. if it stays how it is it will topple. the crack are already showing. and i dont think a full scale remake is feasable for the reasons dave stated.

even if then hold a kick-starter campaign for the funds to do the avalance engine jump. id chip in becasue id miss the hunter if it was gone and i think without forward movement it will go.
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Beano8U
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Re: Status Update 15th September 2016

Post by Beano8U »

All I mentioned was a further render distance for the animals, not an overhaul.
I know with a fuel injected engine (cars, but similar example as it is a program that runs a car engine afterall) I can adjust the fuel injection timing and duration, valve timing and more(on a modern engine).
Surely a game engine can be adjusted with parameters allowing a further render distance of animals without an overhaul?
But as I mentioned, it would not be fair to other players who have invested in the game and cannot handle these kind of upgrades.
Maybe one day, and it will have to happen eventually, we can have an upgrade in graphics.
Please start with the in-game camera though.

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caledonianblues
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Re: Status Update 15th September 2016

Post by caledonianblues »

L3M182 wrote:theoretically the whole game could be moved over to that platform "as is".
No, not even theoretically. The engine the game is running on now was nothing to do with Avalanche or Expansive Worlds. Yes, Expansive Worlds may have developed it since they inherited / acquired theHunter but it's a totally different engine to the one the Just Cause series runs on. Sure, some stuff could be used, but none of it could be moved over "as is". It would be a massive undertaking. I would estimate somewhere in the region of at least a few million dollars in cost. I would even question whether a team of developers the size of the one at Expansive Worlds could even do it in two years. Think about the amount of content, all the animal AI which would need to be re-written, the behavioural properties of all the weapons and projectiles. None of that stuff could just be "moved over". All that stuff would have to be done again from scratch. Then take all the backend, the interaction between the client and backend, the control system for the game character, the inventory management system, the dogs, the harvesting system, in-game notifications, the way the weather impacts hunting (animal scent, wind direction etc).

This game has magnitudes more content than most modern games, and those takes a couple of years to develop (more in some cases) with teams of hundreds of developers, and giant budgets. Don't get me wrong, I want it as much as everyone else. I just know, without question, that it's not a case of drag and drop and away we go. Not to mention the fact that a new engine would be a prime opportunity for the developers to "get rid of the crap" and do it again properly. Nobody with an ounce of common sense would even consider migrating this game with all the bugs, botch jobs, and band-aids it's endured over the years.

I'm not trying to be a naysayer or claim that it's not possible. Of course it's possible. But is it financially viable for such a niche game? Could Expansive Worlds swallow that cost? I don't know. I'm just trying to help set some realistic expectations. I want it to happen, and would love to be wrong about this, but I don't want a new engine at the cost of losing all the great stuff we have now.
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Re: Status Update 15th September 2016

Post by Hawkeye »

L3M182 wrote: if im not mistaken, im sure one of the devs said its entirely possible to increase it. infact im sure he said it was easy. just it increases requirements by a fair bit just for a marginal increase in render range.
I'm not sure where you got that impression. I really thought this horse had been beaten badly enough to not have to include any sources, but I'll bring them out below.
Beano8U wrote:All I mentioned was a further render distance for the animals, not an overhaul.
I know with a fuel injected engine (cars, but similar example as it is a program that runs a car engine afterall) I can adjust the fuel injection timing and duration, valve timing and more(on a modern engine).
Surely a game engine can be adjusted with parameters allowing a further render distance of animals without an overhaul?
But as I mentioned, it would not be fair to other players who have invested in the game and cannot handle these kind of upgrades.
Maybe one day, and it will have to happen eventually, we can have an upgrade in graphics.
Please start with the in-game camera though.
Please don't confuse vehicle engines with video game engines. They are not even close enough for comparison. In the case of render distance, they have repeatedly stated that it is a limitation of the game engine...as in, they would have to use a different game engine to increase it. To humor your car engine analogy, imagine when you change engines that all your gaskets, pistons, spark plugs, carb, intake manifold etc ALL vanish and must be recreated from scratch. It is more like throwing a 350 in that Jeep Wrangler than it is hooking up a timing light. That's the level of change we're talking about.

As caledonianblues very accurately describes above, it is a grueling process. I agree with his assessment that I do not believe they have close to the staff they would require to get this change done. This is not a new idea, not a new concept or request, rather, this is something that has been discussed at length since the game's release in 2009.

Here is the latest statement from Alena in the latest Ask Us Anything

Q: Will you ever fix the 200 meter view limit? (Also: Could the game engine support it or evolve? (+ all the rest of questions related to the update of the engine, graphics and tech)

A: Probably not, at least not in the foreseeable future. The render distance is the limitation of the current engine we have. Is there any chance we might upgrade it? There is always a chance, but the hard truth is that it would require many months of work to convert the game and everything in it to the latest Avalanche Engine. This is not something we consider a priority for theHunter right now.
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caledonianblues
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Re: Status Update 15th September 2016

Post by caledonianblues »

And here is an explanation from Peter Johansson, explaining the fact it's not a simple process to increase the render distance. Peter was previously the most senior artist working on the game, and from what I understand very knowledgeable about the entire game as a whole.
Hawkeye wrote:To humor your car engine analogy, imagine when you change engines that all your gaskets, pistons, spark plugs, carb, intake manifold etc ALL vanish and must be recreated from scratch.
All of the above, plus a complete re-write of the ECU software that exists in modern cars.
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Prinz1989
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Re: Status Update 15th September 2016

Post by Prinz1989 »

I'm not much of a fan of extra rendering range for the animals anyway.

Right now it's often easier to spot an animal 200m away by "eyesight", than it is with the spotting scope. Because the animal renders, the vegetation around it does not.
Increasing this to 300m or so would also increase this immersion destroying effect.
In real life I doubt that more than 0.1% of animals shot in hunts are shot at more than 200m.

If the vegetation would render although at further distances the game would be unplayable for everyone who hasn't a high end pc.

If the game should ever fail to be profitable I just hope they give us an offline version. This was one of the few things that kept me from getting into this game for years. Someday all might be lost...
They might win a lot new costumers if they would give a "continue-warrenty".

But now we have a new reserve coming and by any logic that means that there is still interest in investing in this game. So those threats are most likely far away.
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Grizzly17
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Re: Status Update 15th September 2016

Post by Grizzly17 »

Prinz1989 wrote:I'm not much of a fan of extra rendering range for the animals anyway.

Right now it's often easier to spot an animal 200m away by "eyesight", than it is with the spotting scope. Because the animal renders, the vegetation around it does not.
Increasing this to 300m or so would also increase this immersion destroying effect.
In real life I doubt that more than 0.1% of animals shot in hunts are shot at more than 200m.

If the vegetation would render although at further distances the game would be unplayable for everyone who hasn't a high end pc.

If the game should ever fail to be profitable I just hope they give us an offline version. This was one of the few things that kept me from getting into this game for years. Someday all might be lost...
They might win a lot new costumers if they would give a "continue-warrenty".

But now we have a new reserve coming and by any logic that means that there is still interest in investing in this game. So those threats are most likely far away.

I love the idea of an offline version of this game if it (hopefully never) ever closed down. Just the thought of not being able to play this game makes me depressed. :(

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