Using ranges for weapons skilling

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Elrique64
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Using ranges for weapons skilling

Post by Elrique64 »

It seems somewhat counter-intuitive for a shooting game with a range to not use those ranges for skilling up weapons and weapons types.

In the real shooting environment, shooters go to the range for a few reasons. The first is to develop the skills needed to accurately place a shot on their intended target, second to accurately estimate (or calculate) ranges, and (perhaps the most significant) becoming familiar with the weapon.

An ethical hunter isn't going to take a new weapon out hunting without spending more than a couple of minutes on the range familiarizing themselves with that weapon. Most of these ethical hunters are going to shoot several rounds, if not hundreds of rounds from a given "new" gun before they take it out to hunt. You do this by putting rounds down range. Skills come over time, with practice and repetition. What better place for this than a range dedicated to the weapon in hand.

This idea is somewhat simple, but could become a whole new method to gain the skills required for the various weapons in the game. Skills for weapons in game take a certain amount of hits on animals to generate a certain skill level. I propose that this also be taken to the range. Only instead of 1 hit to 1 hit ratio, my thought is 4 or 5 hits on a target's "bulls eye" for 1 skill point at a realistic shooting range, say 100M. Use the same skill points per level, but have a way to accumulate those skill points in a real environment most shooters use to develop those skills. At the range. (This also holds true for pistol shooting, skeet shooting, archery, etc.) Anyone that has put out 12,000 rounds or more on a range is more than capable of putting the shot into the vitals of a hunted animal at similar ranges the first time they pull the trigger on the same firearm.

Also, weapons skilling seems rather broken right now. Most serious shooters are going to know that a bolt action is a bolt action is a bolt action. There are some differences, granted. A .300 Win Mag has a LOT more recoil than a .22LR, and acclimatizing yourself to the firearm at the range is the best method to learn how that weapon is going to affect you when shooting it. But the basic principals are the same. Stance, breath control, trigger control are all a part of the shooting experience. (either at the range or on the hunt) Each weapon has a bit different trigger pull required, even between weapons of the same make and model, but there are enough similarities that you shouldn't be "penalized" just because you are using a different caliber of weapon. Tuck the firearm into your shoulder, look through the sight, get a good sight picture, squeeze the trigger and, BANG! Down drops the animal. (Assuming you KNOW where the weapon is shooting to begin with. You learn this AT THE RANGE!)

Seriously here... I won't hunt with someone that only puts a handful of rounds out of his weapon a year. (To "check zero" as they say.) If you haven't done the time on the range developing or honing your skills I don't want you going out with me. Sit at the bench, lay prone or sitting or kneeling. Get those rounds out and practice, or you aren't hunting with me IRL. I put a couple of hundred to a couple of thousand rounds out on each of my firearms every year. So I KNOW what my skill level is with everything I own.
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Hosenfuhrer
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Re: Using ranges for weapons skilling

Post by Hosenfuhrer »

Doesn't the rifle shooting skill also accelerate the animation for working the action? If not, that should be a thing. Also, if you have manual reloading turned on, I think there should be less of a delay between the shot and racking the action for example on the Pump-action Shotgun to compensate.
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Tanngnjostr
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Re: Using ranges for weapons skilling

Post by Tanngnjostr »

Hosenfuhrer wrote:Doesn't the rifle shooting skill also accelerate the animation for working the action?
As far as I know it only decreases the weapon wobble and for bows it also increases the time you can hold it while aiming. I don't think it accelerates loading animations or similar.
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gas56
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Re: Using ranges for weapons skilling

Post by gas56 »

Elrique64 wrote:It seems somewhat counter-intuitive for a shooting game with a range to not use those ranges for skilling up weapons and weapons types.

In the real shooting environment, shooters go to the range for a few reasons. The first is to develop the skills needed to accurately place a shot on their intended target, second to accurately estimate (or calculate) ranges, and (perhaps the most significant) becoming familiar with the weapon.
If this wasn't a game, you would seriously have to know all there is to know about why you take a new gun to the range.
But the number 1 reason is to sight the rifles scope in to where you consistently put bullets onto the bullseye with that gun.
and the same with any other weapon types.
This game differentially is not set-up like that as once the rifle, is scoped or other weapons taken to the range they are pre-sighted in to hit bullseye at a set yardage/metered distance
taking that equation out of the game as it is IRL.
The only reason the game ranges are there is to learn where those pre-sighted many various weapons are hitting the target at different ranges.
It is up to the player to skill weapons up on actual hunting, because that's where it matters the most in hitting your target in the field once you know where it hits on the range.
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TheSheWolf
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Re: Using ranges for weapons skilling

Post by TheSheWolf »

I'd agree with this entirely, but the issue is that you'd have people just grinding the weapon skill out at the range for hours, even potentially botting or the like. It also wouldn't be -fun- to do.

I'd say to do this:

Make the weapon range raise weapon skill, up to X points per 24-hour period. This means you can go in, work for your reward, but not feel forced into grinding for hours, nor would people with days (or bot programs) of grinding ability get a crazy advantage. There's only so much practice/learning a person can assimilate in a day, too, and I'm assuming firing a gun repeatedly would physically tire you before you shoot several hundred rounds, etc.
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Levado
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Re: Using ranges for weapons skilling

Post by Levado »

One problem: people buy a membership and gear to hunt, spending all that time on the shooting range is far too boring for most people.

Secondly, it's a game and not a simulator. A simulator would never balance weapons the way they are balanced now just to increase profits, a simulator doesn't have scent sprays that ignore wind, a simulator doesn't have a hunter mate, a simulator doesn't have arrows that will always kill the target, it doesn't have such predictable AI, etc.
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Elrique64
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Re: Using ranges for weapons skilling

Post by Elrique64 »

gas56 wrote:But the number 1 reason is to sight the rifles scope in to where you consistently put bullets onto the bullseye with that gun.
Which I think is covered right here:
Elrique64 wrote:An ethical hunter isn't going to take a new weapon out hunting without spending more than a couple of minutes on the range familiarizing themselves with that weapon.
You don't learn breathing, trigger or sight picture out hunting, where the pace is fast and furious for just a few seconds of time. You learn these things on a range, where repetition is the key to success, both on the range and in the field.

With a good bore sight tool, a shooter can "get on paper" with the first round. 3 shots later, that firearm should be "dialed in" as is said. On rare cases it may take more rounds than this. (Example:) I have a .225 Winchester that shoots sub-minute groups with any bullet lighter than 67gr. It wasn't until we walked the target in to 10 yards to see exactly what was happening, we found out that the rifling in the barrel was to low of a twist to stabilize heavier bullets. As a result every 70gr bullet I fired with it were "keyholing" or wobbling as they came out of the barrel. I never would have discovered this without serious range time to diagnose the problem. This rifle can take gophers and prairie dogs in excess of 400 yards religiously with 52gr or 55gr bullets. But can't be loaded with heavier bullets for larger game.

Breath control and trigger control are aspects that are usually never considered in hunting, yet for accuracy they are fundamental requirements. It's called "Buck Fever" where you can't get your heart to slow down enough to ensure a good, stable shot. This happens even to the most experienced hunters. But these experienced hunters mitigate this with muscle memory from the range. Take a deep breath, let it all out, take another, let half of it out, hold it and SQUEEZE. The shot should be a complete surprise when it happens, if you do it right.
Levado wrote:One problem: people buy a membership and gear to hunt, spending all that time on the shooting range is far too boring for most people.
And I see this all the time with the MP games I've hosted recently. People with HS of 100 or less showing up and asking where the WT's are on WRR for example. (Yes, this has happened.) These are the people that think the game is a 1st person shooter like Doom or Call Of Duty. The animals in the game are going to draw straws and line up to be the first shot. Shooting at the range isn't going to be for these people at all, as there is no animal at the end of it. Those that WOULD spend time on the range are the ones that realize the benefits, and are willing to accept that it takes time, effort and practice to become proficient. (If it were actually rewarded in some manner.) These are the same people that come into an MP game and blast bison and moose with the .243.... And then not harvest any of the animals, whining and complaining that they have no kills... And they are the same people I wind up kicking from my MP games when I'm hosting them for shooting up animals the rest of us are actually trying to stalk and harvest legitimately... There are few things more frustrating than to finally stalk into a 200+ moose bull and have it disqualified because some CoD hunter wounded it with a .243 2 hours earlier...
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gas56
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Re: Using ranges for weapons skilling

Post by gas56 »

Elrique64 wrote:
gas56 wrote:But the number 1 reason is to sight the rifles scope in to where you consistently put bullets onto the bullseye with that gun.
Which I think is covered right here:
Elrique64 wrote:An ethical hunter isn't going to take a new weapon out hunting without spending more than a couple of minutes on the range familiarizing themselves with that weapon.
That's pretty on the lean side if it says what I said on your one sentence.
There is one thing to consider though, which many players tend to under observe and remember about this hunting game.
And that it is just a game. Not real hunting.
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Re: Using ranges for weapons skilling

Post by _dfad_ »

Well, if it was known that practicing on a range increases your skill faster, most of players would agree to spend an hour or two with new gun there. :)

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