PLEASE research the weapons before you add in any new ones!

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Elrique64
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PLEASE research the weapons before you add in any new ones!

Post by Elrique64 »

This has been kind of haunting me since I first started playing the game.

The .243, .270 and the .300 are single shot bolt actions. (There may be others, but I don't own them, so can't test.) In the US, with very few (and notable) exceptions, most bolt actions have 4 or 5 shot capacities. The exceptions to this are generally high end target rifles. Not the types of rifles most people would take out hunting to beat up in the bush, scrape on the rocks, potentially drop down a hillside or valley, etc.

Yet, these weapons in game are just that... Single shot bolt actions. Might as well have made them break actions or rolling blocks... With a plethora of magazine fed (box or trapdoor magazines) it actually shocks me that there aren't more magazine fed bolts.

The 12Ga pump shotguns have a 6 round capacity. In the US, it is illegal in most states to hunt with any shotgun that isn't plugged for a 3 round capacity, maximum. Hunting migratory birds, such as ducks or goose is federally mandated to this capacity. Yes, the guns might be able to hold more than 3 shots, but with these plugs, they are capped at 2 in the mag, one in the chamber.

Lever action .30-06? Seriously? There are maybe a handful of manufacturers over the years that made lever actions in that chambering. The most notable being the Browning Lever-action Rifle. (BLR). Which isn't a very common rifle at all... Yet every US and many European manufacturers only offer this caliber in bolt actions or semi-automatics. We have 2 bolt action .30-06's. (One appears to be based on the venerable Springfield 03A3, while the other seems more along the lines of a mannlicher stocked custom, which would have more likely been chambered in 7x57 or 8x57 rather than .30-06.) (I would note that BOTH of these rifles have a magazine. Making these truly "repeating" rifles.)

Scopes: 2-10? 4-8? Again, these scope magnifications show the lack of research... 3x9 is probably one of the most commonly available zoom scopes in the world. Scope magnifications have almost always been a factor of 3x. So a base magnification of 3 means 9 as the top. 4 means 12, 6 means 18, etc. There are some exceptions to this, but it holds for the vast majority of the main stream manufacturers. (I own an 8-32x56 for example.)

Bow sights.... (And accessories) These have been completely modular and industry standardized since the mid 1980's. What fits one bow fits all other bows of similar design. (Compounds, modern recurves, traditional recurves, long bows, etc.) This means on bow quivers, sights, string silencers, stability devices, etc. All are able to be moved from one bow to another without any major issues. (Other than the tuning to make sure the pins are set right, etc.)

So what I'm asking for here is simple... RESEARCH the weapons and a history of the calibers BEFORE you release a new weapon. Also let's do some research into ammo boxes. Most rifle ammo is sold in 20 round boxes. Shotgun shells are sold in 25 round boxes. (Except slug and buckshot, which are generally sold in 5 round boxes.) 22LR and .17HMR is generally sold in 50 round boxes, so at least the developers got one this right.

(The E-Caller is another example of a lack of research, IMO... Most people using e-callers use them for a lot more than one specific animal. They are generally packed with a wide range of possible calls, or you can change the calls for your own "custom" sounds.)

And please, let's not insult the die hard hunters and shooters in the community and claim that these things are "balance" issues. There are so many examples of where it was done right, then done wrong, it's not balance. It is more lack of research or attention to detail.

If you want someone to provide technical details, I'm sure there are more than enough players that really do hunt or shoot who could provide it. (Having owned my own gun shop and worked at a few others, I would be interested in offering some insight.)
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Re: PLEASE research the weapons before you add in any new ones!

Post by I_Does_English »

Ok I'm just gonna ask one question:... who cares? :lol:. It is just a game after all. I mean sure there are a couple little things they got wrong but it's not like they're trying to completely replicate the world of guns through this game. These are quite specific little points, I mean sure if they messed up completely like accidentally making .300 permitted for rabbits or something then sure, complain. But these are not very... important things. I mean I see how you picked up on them owning a gun shop and everything, but they are quite specific points for just a hunting game.

Just my opinion.
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Re: PLEASE research the weapons before you add in any new ones!

Post by Elrique64 »

I_Does_English wrote:Ok I'm just gonna ask one question:... who cares? :lol:. It is just a game after all. I mean sure there are a couple little things they got wrong but it's not like they're trying to completely replicate the world of guns through this game. These are quite specific little points, I mean sure if they messed up completely like accidentally making .300 permitted for rabbits or something then sure, complain. But these are not very... important things. I mean I see how you picked up on them owning a gun shop and everything, but they are quite specific points for just a hunting game.

Just my opinion.
Well, for a game that sells itself as "THE MOST REALISTIC HUNTING GAME EVER CREATED" they fail on some of the most basic things such as weapons, scopes and ammo...

It's not going to stop me from playing, but it is a flaw, which I made the OP. You are content, fine... Thanks for the comments.

But if they want to continue making that claim, they might want to do these basic tools the way they exist IRL, don't you think?
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Re: PLEASE research the weapons before you add in any new ones!

Post by caledonianblues »

I think you've made some valid points, and many of your wishes are shared by others. More bolt action rifles with magazines being the most obvious one. However, you seem to have lost sight of the fact that theHunter is a game. It's not a hardcore firearms simulator, and it's not even a hardcore hunting simulator. Many of the small details that are wrong in the game could probably have been addressed a long time ago if the developers were so inclined, but going back now to fix all the things you have issues with would not be practical.

Twice, you started sentences/arguments with "in the US". Why is that relevant? This isn't a US hunting simulator. It's a game played all over the world by a diverse audience of hunters, non-hunters, animal lovers, gun enthusiasts and people who have never touched real guns. If the developers were to start basing the rules of the game on real world hunting regulations, it would quickly become a pretty boring game. And even if they did, what makes you think they'd choose US hunting legislation? Would it be fun if tag limits were introduced? Because there are laws governing that sort of thing too. I understand that for someone like you, these little details are extremely important, and the fact they're missing is frustrating. But what are you proposing? To go back and fix these things? Can you imagine the impact that would have on the game? For you, it might be the ultimate improvement. For others, it might be the exact opposite. What about the cost involved to go back and fix all those things? You might be happy for the developers to focus exclusively on things like that, but you can't assume that everyone else would. The product must make money. If it stops making money it goes away, at which point nobody is happy and all those little details become completely irrelevant.
Elrique64 wrote:In the US, it is illegal in most states to hunt with any shotgun that isn't plugged for a 3 round capacity, maximum.
This is a perfect example of a change that would immediately alter the value of something. I happen to like the 6-shot capacity of the pump action shotgun. If it had been introduced with a 3-shot capacity I would probably still have bought it. Would I want it to be reduced to 3 rounds now, years later? No thanks.
Elrique64 wrote:And please, let's not insult the die-hard hunters and shooters in the community and claim that these things are "balance" issues.
If you're insulted by the fact the game must maintain an element of balance, then that's something you need to deal with, because it's not going to go away. Your comments about the e-caller are a perfect example. They could have made it attract a bunch of animals. But if they did that, it would immediately reduce the value of other items in the store. So why would they? Every single item in the store has to be carefully considered, and often that means taking a real-world item and decreasing its value by changing something about it. For many players, that might be extremely annoying. I get that. The same goes for the permitted species list. But game balance is important for commercial optimisation. It might not make for a very realistic experience if you're a die-hard hunter or firearms enthusiast, but it helps keep the people in the finance team happy which is of paramount importance not only to the company but to you, me, and everyone else who loves this game.

There are many things I would change about this game, many of them relating to weapons too. I think the scope mounting system is archaic and should be created again from scratch. Having had a peek behind the scenes though, I understand just how much work would be involved in that, and can now understand why it will never happen. I think to fully enjoy theHunter, you must make your peace with certain things. My advice to you, would be to make your peace with the fact that the game is never going to offer the level of firearm accuracy you clearly crave. Again, I do agree with some of your comments, but you've not presented any arguments that would convince me to go back and re-visit these things. "Because it would be more authentic", or "because die-hard firearms enthusiasts would enjoy the game more", are not sufficient reasons to invest huge sums of money on development time. Especially when you consider the fact that those people are not the only target audience.
Elrique64 wrote:Well, for a game that sells itself as "THE MOST REALISTIC HUNTING GAME EVER CREATED" they fail on some of the most basic things such as weapons, scopes and ammo...
Actually they succeeded on every count to create the most realistic hunting game ever created. Can you send me a link to a more realistic one?
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Re: PLEASE research the weapons before you add in any new ones!

Post by InstinctiveArcher »

I don't mean to sound rude, but it sounds like you have little to no knowledge about the archery claims that you are making. I have never seen a recurve or longbow accepting of the sight that I have on my compound. Back in my compound days, I had to purchase a new sight when switching bows because even those didn't work together. Obviously you cannot have the same string between bows, except in trad bows of the same length. Along with sights, you also mention stabilizers. Sure, some trad bows have them, but the vast majority of them do not, and are not even drilled out to be accepting of a stabilizer.

It's just a game. Play it and don't take it to seriously ;)
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Re: PLEASE research the weapons before you add in any new ones!

Post by Elrique64 »

I also said "of similar design" and then listed the different designs I see in game. Of those designs the only one I haven't personally used to hunt with is a traditional Long Bow, although I did shoot a more modern version that did provide stabilizer mounts. It was a hand made bow, and the guy that made it is now long dead.

But I get the point. No one else sees these things as issues and I should STFU. Nuf said.
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Re: PLEASE research the weapons before you add in any new ones!

Post by mapache01 »

Elrique64 wrote:This has been kind of haunting me since I first started playing the game.

The .243, .270 and the .300 are single shot bolt actions. (There may be others, but I don't own them, so can't test.) In the US, with very few (and notable) exceptions, most bolt actions have 4 or 5 shot capacities. The exceptions to this are generally high end target rifles. Not the types of rifles most people would take out hunting to beat up in the bush, scrape on the rocks, potentially drop down a hillside or valley, etc.

Yet, these weapons in game are just that... Single shot bolt actions. Might as well have made them break actions or rolling blocks... With a plethora of magazine fed (box or trapdoor magazines) it actually shocks me that there aren't more magazine fed bolts.

The 12Ga pump shotguns have a 6 round capacity. In the US, it is illegal in most states to hunt with any shotgun that isn't plugged for a 3 round capacity, maximum. Hunting migratory birds, such as ducks or goose is federally mandated to this capacity. Yes, the guns might be able to hold more than 3 shots, but with these plugs, they are capped at 2 in the mag, one in the chamber.

Lever action .30-06? Seriously? There are maybe a handful of manufacturers over the years that made lever actions in that chambering. The most notable being the Browning Lever-action Rifle. (BLR). Which isn't a very common rifle at all... Yet every US and many European manufacturers only offer this caliber in bolt actions or semi-automatics. We have 2 bolt action .30-06's. (One appears to be based on the venerable Springfield 03A3, while the other seems more along the lines of a mannlicher stocked custom, which would have more likely been chambered in 7x57 or 8x57 rather than .30-06.) (I would note that BOTH of these rifles have a magazine. Making these truly "repeating" rifles.)

Scopes: 2-10? 4-8? Again, these scope magnifications show the lack of research... 3x9 is probably one of the most commonly available zoom scopes in the world. Scope magnifications have almost always been a factor of 3x. So a base magnification of 3 means 9 as the top. 4 means 12, 6 means 18, etc. There are some exceptions to this, but it holds for the vast majority of the main stream manufacturers. (I own an 8-32x56 for example.)

Bow sights.... (And accessories) These have been completely modular and industry standardized since the mid 1980's. What fits one bow fits all other bows of similar design. (Compounds, modern recurves, traditional recurves, long bows, etc.) This means on bow quivers, sights, string silencers, stability devices, etc. All are able to be moved from one bow to another without any major issues. (Other than the tuning to make sure the pins are set right, etc.)

So what I'm asking for here is simple... RESEARCH the weapons and a history of the calibers BEFORE you release a new weapon. Also let's do some research into ammo boxes. Most rifle ammo is sold in 20 round boxes. Shotgun shells are sold in 25 round boxes. (Except slug and buckshot, which are generally sold in 5 round boxes.) 22LR and .17HMR is generally sold in 50 round boxes, so at least the developers got one this right.

(The E-Caller is another example of a lack of research, IMO... Most people using e-callers use them for a lot more than one specific animal. They are generally packed with a wide range of possible calls, or you can change the calls for your own "custom" sounds.)

And please, let's not insult the die hard hunters and shooters in the community and claim that these things are "balance" issues. There are so many examples of where it was done right, then done wrong, it's not balance. It is more lack of research or attention to detail.

If you want someone to provide technical details, I'm sure there are more than enough players that really do hunt or shoot who could provide it. (Having owned my own gun shop and worked at a few others, I would be interested in offering some insight.)
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If the MOTO and Marketing of the game is THE MOST REALISTIC HUNTING GAME EVER CREATED, you nail it Elrique64
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Re: PLEASE research the weapons before you add in any new ones!

Post by JJ74 »

it wa the MOST REALISTIC HUNTING GAME EVER CREATED in 2009, and their work ethic 9 years later has definetly improved.
Last edited by Tod1d on January 9th, 2018, 10:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: removed inflammatory comment
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Re: PLEASE research the weapons before you add in any new ones!

Post by DanthemanBoone »

A point that no one has so far thought to mention is the fact that, all of the early single shot rifles, pump action shotgun and the 30.06 lever action were inherited by EW, when they took over from the original company that ran into financial difficulty. The current pricing strategy, while upsetting to some, has kept the game alive and growing.
Attempts to make changes to the original coding and models has proven to lead to many unexpected results over the years. Its a can of worms best left unopened.
What E. W. has done is to introduce new models with more modern configurations as optional purchasable upgrades to those weapons instead.

Anywhere you hunt in this wide world you will be required to comply with the hunting laws endemic to the area. The Evergreen reserves are no different in that respect.
Quoting U.S. firearms and hunting laws is not a valid argument. Just about every state in America has different laws about hunting firearm configurations and the animals that can be legally hunted with different calibers. This game is played internationally in what is basically a representation of a privately owned game park, administered by our grumpy old friend Doc.
He alone decides what is permitted and what is not.
You have the option to send him back a message anytime he contacts you, outlining your complaints if you want.
Good luck with that.

The motto, "The most realistic hunting Game on the net", is specificly related to comparable online games. There is no other Hunting game on the net that comes closer to reality, unless you have a preference for Call of the Wild". It is not a claim to actual realism, only that it claims to be the MOST realistic in its Genre.

So take a big breath , unknot your Knickers and enjoy.
Its only a GAME.
Old hunters never die.They just sit around the campfires and tell the biggest lies.
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Re: PLEASE research the weapons before you add in any new ones!

Post by Grizdude »

Well said, Dan!
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