PLEASE research the weapons before you add in any new ones!

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Sherab86
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Re: PLEASE research the weapons before you add in any new ones!

Post by Sherab86 »

My feelings lay somewhere in the middle. Perhaps in oposition to most players (or maybe not), firearms simulation was the first thing that brought me to the game.
Virtual hunting itself I've started enjoy later on. :)

So "simulation" of firearms is definitely important to me, and I would like to have it as reallistic as possible. However points that OP makes are rather of lesser importance for me. For example zoom of the scopes - this is realy a detail from my standpoint. As long as 10x realy zooms 10 times, then I'm fine with this.

What I do care for is as reallistic performance of ammo/weapon combination as possible. I reffer here mostly to external and terminal ballistics (I care for internal ballistics too, but from game's mechanics standpoint, this is rather negligible). And I see a room to improvement here too.

And as some others, I don't like that reffering to the U.S. regulations as designator of realism.
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Elrique64
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Re: PLEASE research the weapons before you add in any new ones!

Post by Elrique64 »

US regulations were referred to, because they are pretty easy to find. Know the state you wish to hunt in, find the information in a click or two. Finding regulations for Sweden and New Zealand has taken me over 3 hours to find the references I refer to below. Since I live in the US, the country with one of the higher density of hunters to non-hunters, the regulations are more readily available to me. Below I look at some of the other countries if they had any information available. (Some of it is hard to find!)

Swedish: http://www.face.eu/sites/default/files/sweden_en.pdf

Here it clearly states on page 7:
Shotguns, which can be loaded with more than three cartridges, may not be used. The largest permitted calibre is 12. Calibres smaller than 20 - with certain exceptions - cannot be used for hunting
So 12Ga is the largest bore of shotgun. (They call it Calibre above, but it's really not. It's the number of lead balls that can be made that are the diameter of the bore, from a pound of lead. so a 12Ga is 12 balls, 28Ga is 28 balls.) Double barrels are illegal, and a pump or Semi-auto must be plugged to hold no more than 3 rounds total. Sounds a lot like the US regulations, doesn't it? (10Ga is legal in the US, and you can use double barrels in the US as well.) But that same document shows Swedish hunters represent about 3.2% of the entire Swedish population. (Compared to 7% in the US?)

Seems there are no waterfowl or migratory bird hunting regulations for New Zealand. Also seems shotguns aren't a permitted firearm in that country: http://www.nzhuntinginfo.com/gun-regulations.html Also seems from this link that the .270 is the preferred firearm of choice. (Another single shot bolt we have in game. Oh goodie!)

Perhaps we should look at a different country: If we look at Poland's regulations, (here: https://www.huntadventure.pl/regulations) we might see the reason for the 200M max render distance in the game:
2. The hunter can take a shot at the game in a distance not bigger than:
40 metres – when shooting with pellet or smoothbore barrel shotgun bullets;
100 metres – when shooting with rifle bullets with the use of a foresight;
200 metres - when shooting with rifle bullets with the use of a telescopic sight
. I wonder if there is any correlation? Or is it just coincidence? No mention about waterfowl or migratory birds. No mention of shotguns either.

Should we look at Germany's regulations next: (Found here: http://www.bavarian-times.com/hunting-i ... o-know/162) and we see this:
There are no caliber restrictions for shooting although 12, 16 and 20 bore shot are the norm. Automatic or semi-automatic weapons with space for more than two cartridges in the magazine are not permitted for hunting in Germany.
Humm... Another country with a max of 3 rounds in the weapon for shotguns. (2 cartridges in the magazine, one in the chamber, 3 rounds total.)

The idea that modifying the in-game firearms to something that is actually a real weapon seems to ****** a lot of people on these forums. Maybe, it's as someone has suggested, fixing something might break too many other things. Or perhaps it's just game play mechanics and cost/reward for EW. (Seriously, why would someone buy a new gun, if they already had a repeater that did the same job and got for free?) I mean why fix something 10 years in because a gun nut comes in and suggests it's screwed up, right?

And I didn't even go into terminal ballistics, yet. (Deer quartering in to you at under 50 yards , shot placed between the sternum and front shoulder and it's a body hit or a shoulder blade hit with a .243? RL that's a double lung, possibly even a liver if it didn't exit out of the animal completely...) I seem to spend a lot of time tracking blood trails in game that I would never would have needed to track at all IRL. That's all about terminal ballistics. What the bullets do when they enter the target. Something that isn't modeled very well in the game at all. But, we're not going to open that can of worms and all the love it could bring to this thread. (Or the animosity my references to US regulations appears to have engendered on this thread.)

In any case, I rest the whole argument. Not enough other people here seem to think this is something that should be fixed. It's not going to stop my playing the game. But it might be stopping a lot of potential players in the US from actually buying into the pay to play....
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Sherab86
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Re: PLEASE research the weapons before you add in any new ones!

Post by Sherab86 »

Elrique64 wrote:US regulations were referred to, because they are pretty easy to find. Know the state you wish to hunt in, find the information in a click or two. Finding regulations for Sweden and New Zealand has taken me over 3 hours to find the references I refer to below. Since I live in the US, the country with one of the higher density of hunters to non-hunters, the regulations are more readily available to me. Below I look at some of the other countries if they had any information available. (Some of it is hard to find!)

Swedish: http://www.face.eu/sites/default/files/sweden_en.pdf

Here it clearly states on page 7:
Shotguns, which can be loaded with more than three cartridges, may not be used. The largest permitted calibre is 12. Calibres smaller than 20 - with certain exceptions - cannot be used for hunting
So 12Ga is the largest bore of shotgun. (They call it Calibre above, but it's really not. It's the number of lead balls that can be made that are the diameter of the bore, from a pound of lead. so a 12Ga is 12 balls, 28Ga is 28 balls.) Double barrels are illegal, and a pump or Semi-auto must be plugged to hold no more than 3 rounds total. Sounds a lot like the US regulations, doesn't it? (10Ga is legal in the US, and you can use double barrels in the US as well.) But that same document shows Swedish hunters represent about 3.2% of the entire Swedish population. (Compared to 7% in the US?)

Seems there are no waterfowl or migratory bird hunting regulations for New Zealand. Also seems shotguns aren't a permitted firearm in that country: http://www.nzhuntinginfo.com/gun-regulations.html Also seems from this link that the .270 is the preferred firearm of choice. (Another single shot bolt we have in game. Oh goodie!)

Perhaps we should look at a different country: If we look at Poland's regulations, (here: https://www.huntadventure.pl/regulations) we might see the reason for the 200M max render distance in the game:
2. The hunter can take a shot at the game in a distance not bigger than:
40 metres – when shooting with pellet or smoothbore barrel shotgun bullets;
100 metres – when shooting with rifle bullets with the use of a foresight;
200 metres - when shooting with rifle bullets with the use of a telescopic sight
. I wonder if there is any correlation? Or is it just coincidence? No mention about waterfowl or migratory birds. No mention of shotguns either.

Should we look at Germany's regulations next: (Found here: http://www.bavarian-times.com/hunting-i ... o-know/162) and we see this:
There are no caliber restrictions for shooting although 12, 16 and 20 bore shot are the norm. Automatic or semi-automatic weapons with space for more than two cartridges in the magazine are not permitted for hunting in Germany.
Humm... Another country with a max of 3 rounds in the weapon for shotguns. (2 cartridges in the magazine, one in the chamber, 3 rounds total.)
Yeap, but what I meant mostly is that regulations have nothing to do with how reallistic weaponry is represented. So shotguns with magazine-tubes of capacity of six do exist, right? There are even such of capacity of 8 if I recall correctly. There is nothing unreallistic with that. And regulations can be very different around the world, as you yourself presented to us. ;) EW is an "owner" of it's reserves, and they can make regulations as they want. This is not RL hunting, so they don't have to obey any RL regulations in doing this.

But I do agree with you about single shot bolt action rifles for example. While they are maybe not totaly unreallistic, most modern models have internal or exchangable magazines of capicity of, well, more than one. ;) But I simply do not find this as important, as you do. Similary with scopes.

Elrique64 wrote: And I didn't even go into terminal ballistics, yet. (Deer quartering in to you at under 50 yards , shot placed between the sternum and front shoulder and it's a body hit or a shoulder blade hit with a .243? RL that's a double lung, possibly even a liver if it didn't exit out of the animal completely...) I seem to spend a lot of time tracking blood trails in game that I would never would have needed to track at all IRL. That's all about terminal ballistics. What the bullets do when they enter the target. Something that isn't modeled very well in the game at all.
And here we can shake our hands. ;) Because I agree mostly. I think this is by part dictated by render distance (with is dictated by game's engine performance vs. CPU and GPU demands, as far as I know), and sales. Within 200 meters while still present, differences in external ballistics and penetration would be rather very small between almost all aviable cartridges, if they would be simulated fully reallistic. And if you can achieve almost same result with every gun, having one, would you buy another one? No profit for EW. ;) I still would love to have fully reallistic ballistics - both, external and terminal (I mentioned before only penetration part, but "damage" part could be highly tweaked too). But I simply doubt this will happen. EDIT: And this is probably not that easy to do, actually. ;)
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Violator31
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Re: PLEASE research the weapons before you add in any new ones!

Post by Violator31 »

Elrique64 wrote: Seems there are no waterfowl or migratory bird hunting regulations for New Zealand.

Perhaps we should look at a different country: If we look at Poland's regulations,

Should we look at Germany's regulations next:
You seemed to have helped Dan prove his point;
DanthemanBoone wrote: Anywhere you hunt in this wide world you will be required to comply with the hunting laws endemic to the area. The Evergreen reserves are no different in that respect.
Well done.

It's a game. You can play it as you wish. There aren't any certain rules to follow, other than which weapons are ethical for each species.
If it bothers you so much, pick the weapons & bag limits that match the area that you live in & play it that way. Then, if you want to hunt an available species that doesn't exist in your homeland, learn the regulations to a country where it is native to & follow those laws.
Sounds FUN doesn't it? :lol:
(and when checking up on the laws of those other countries...check the additional costs to hunt there & donate some additional cash to the game) :D
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Re: PLEASE research the weapons before you add in any new ones!

Post by DanthemanBoone »

I think we may be headed a little off topic but I feel the need to clarify the New Zealand hunting regime..
There are specific regulations regarding Duck and Upland Game shooting which are administered by the following body.
https://fishandgame.org.nz/licences/hun ... gulations/
Shotguns are definitely allowed.

Deer stalking and pig hunting and all other game excluding birds.
The Department of Conservation sets the rules for hunting on all Crown Land and national Parks.
Basically to hunt those areas only an access permit is required. There is no charge for access permits.
Access is normally only restricted to any areas under severe fire hazard conditions or when there are poisoning operations being carried out.
No licences are required for any animal.
No seasonal restrictions apply
No bag limits are existing.
No weapons or caliber restrictions apply to any animal.
(In fact you may shoot at anything at anytime with any weapon you like.)
Excepting that,
Shotguns and rimfire rifles are restricted in National parks for the protection of native Birds.
Hunting during the hours of darkness is not permitted.

All other private lands may be hunted with the permission of the land owners or their appointed administrators.
Night hunting and shotguns would be permitted unless the land holder does not allow.

There are only two specific areas I am aware of where licences are required and bag limits are enforced.
The Fiordland National Park Roosevelt Elk herd.
The Woodhill Forest Fallow herd.
Access and licences for both are allocated by a governing body of the N.Z. Deerstalkers Association by yearly National Ballot.
Any of those two species found outside the administrated herd boundaries are fair game.

So as a New Zealander I really feel sorry for those of you who have to struggle with the restrictive legislation regarding Firearms, Seasons, Bag limits and access to Recreational Hunting in the countries you find yourselves in.
The only restriction we really have is that owning pistols, Automatic and Semi Automatic military style weapons are not permitted unless special permission is obtained with great difficulty.
And hunting with them is not allowed under any circumstances.
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