External Ballistics info on weapon/ammo charts. General info from devs on "damage" system.

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Sherab86
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External Ballistics info on weapon/ammo charts. General info from devs on "damage" system.

Post by Sherab86 »

Not sure that as a newbie and what's more only with guest account I should post here already, but here what I propose:

Would be nice if players would receive some more technical information on the weapons info charts, at least in the shop. I think here mainly about external ballistics. This would be useful to estimate more easily maximal practical range of given weapon for given game. It could be given just in shortened form of a table of few ranges, like 50, 100, and 200 yds, and with corresponding projectile velocities and/or energy values. Actualy this would go more for ammo charts.

However in reality barrel lenght infulance highly muzzle velocity. And as fat as I know we don't have info from developers, do choosen weapon influance in anyway projectiles performance. It looks like that differences between weapons using same ammo are rather cosmetic and thing as barrel lenght and precission (I've read that usualy hunting rifles have about 3 MOA of tollerance, but given models can differ ofcourse) are ommitted.

It would be nice this would be officialy confirmed or opposite.

Not neccesarily in details, but som info on how "damage" system works would be apprieciated too. Intuition says that generaly bigger caliber projectile of the same construction would couse more sevire bleeding. However not all projectiles in the game are of same type/construction. Same way in reality, 5.56 mm NATO FMJ can do a lot more damage than 7.62 mm NATO FMJ despite being of smaller caliber, because at usual velocities of each of them, 5.56 mm projectile tends to fragment, while 7.62 mm tumbles but usualy stay together. Some general info - a kind of "rule of thumb" would make ammo selection easier.

This "wounding potential" and mentioned external ballistics (with translates to "penetration capacity" at given range) info would gives as, players, more tools to select our favored weapon sets for given job. :)
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Re: External Ballistics info on weapon/ammo charts. General info from devs on "damage" system.

Post by Tod1d »

There are certain aspects of this game that are left up to "discovery" intentionally. I do think they should at least publish standard information that are typically on boxes of ammo (bullet weight, muzzle velocity & bullet construction/type). But, I think there is a possibility that they don't precisely know this information. If they've programmed the bullet path using one ofthe standard formulas for a parabola, they wouldn't know the bullet weight & speed.

Several people, including myself, have posted "range card" information (bullet drop at specific distances) for some of the weapons. do a search on "ballistics" and you may find them.

I'm pretty sure, other than arrows, that the weapon does not influence the projectiles. i.e. the 30-06 Nosler Partition ammo performs the same in the 30-06 Bolt Action & the 30-06 Stutzen.

There is a chart on the wiki that may interest you.. Performance Chart

As for rifle selection, if you're not concerned with Harvest Value, you could just use the biggest (most powerful) weapon permitted for each species. You could own only the .340 (or 45-70), 9.3 (or .300), .243 (free), & 22LR and be covered for every species.
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Re: External Ballistics info on weapon/ammo charts. General info from devs on "damage" system.

Post by Sherab86 »

Hi!

Thanks for response. I'm aware of players with can even prefer this "discovery" approach. I for other hand belong to those who like technical details. ;)

As far as I know ballistics mechanics are quite advanced in this game. Such things as bullett drop and wind "drift", drag (velocity lost) are implemented. I can only guess that at least for sponsored ammo (like Nosler) this data are based on real world counterpart. If those data are taken "stictly" we can use real ballistic sheets for ammo from Nosler itself (or others). However it still would be nice if we had those in game without need of checking several other websites.

Again, at least for some sponsored ammo we also know the type/construction. For example we know that "starting" .243 ammo is actualy Nosler 90 gr ballistic tip. But we don't know how this "fact" is impelemented into the game. Do ammo expansion and fragmentation (this one is not-bonded, so fragmentation occurs to some degree) is somehow simulated, or not? And I would like to know that. ;)

Choosing biggest allowed might be sometimes misslinding. I've read (some time ago now, so I may recall this wrong way) that while .308 is still popular hunting caliber, modern .300 ammo is actualy much better for hunting purpouses. Actualy, for the game this is somehow confirmed by wiki description of .300 caliber rifles.

I was thinking about this, and perhaps instead of usual ballistic charts, for game purposes, would be better to give players "penetration" at given distance. Always in the same material - a kind of ballistic gell for game purposes. This is because indeed, with a little bit of good will, we can check bullet drop on range and give this to community. Taking into consideration rendering distance, for most rifles this is not big issue either way. But knowing at with range we can still reliably get to vitals of given animal would be most useful.

I'm aware of the chart You've linked me. And I appriciate it. My problem with it is that it is based on "field" data taken from shooting on some mooses waking through the range (if I understood correctly). So distance is not always exactly the same, angle is not the same, shot placement slightly different and so on. I would simply like to have some official data.

I will look for those ballistic data You've mentioned on the forum. Thanks again. :)
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Re: External Ballistics info on weapon/ammo charts. General info from devs on "damage" system.

Post by Tod1d »

Sherab86 wrote:I for other hand belong to those who like technical details. ;)
Me too. But they're not going to share it, so we have to make due.

I'm quite certain fragmentation is not taken into effect. At least not directly. I believe each projectile has a path, velocity (decreases with time/distance), and a damage factor (which could intrinsically take into account fragmentation). I believe each animal has a 'toughness' or 'resistance' factor.
The velocity at impact & the animal toughness determines penetration depth, and the damage determines how fast it bleeds (loses hit points).

When I say, "biggest", I really mean most powerful. I think the .300 is still the most powerful in it's class, and the .340 is the meanest in the "big gun" category.

The chart that Tomrf5 did attempted to determine penetration of each weapon. He made every shot on the same 3D targets, and the same distances & angles.
He only considered shots that hit the shoulder blade, and which organs they hit after passing through the shoulder blade. Following the same procedure, you should be able to duplicate the test on newer weapons. EW is not going to give us this information, so the only way to find it is to determine it ourselves.

I use the following chart (an updated version) as a reference. I would really like to color code the permitted weapons (white) with green (ideal), yellow (adequate), and red (not practical). The numbers in the Ibex column are the distances you have to shoot at or over with that weapon to get 100% trophy integrity. There would be another distance at which you'd have to shoot at or under to get 0 wound time. If you can't get 100% HV, then it's a Red weapon..
However, it would take a ton of data to determine which weapon/animal/distance combinations produce good results. I don't have the time or the motivation to do that much work. ;)

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Re: External Ballistics info on weapon/ammo charts. General info from devs on "damage" system.

Post by Sherab86 »

Tod1d wrote: The chart that Tomrf5 did attempted to determine penetration of each weapon. He made every shot on the same 3D targets, and the same distances & angles.
Well, this is simply impossible if those were some random animals passing by. But I will take this chart as a best thing that we can have I assume. Thanks again! :)
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Re: External Ballistics info on weapon/ammo charts. General info from devs on "damage" system.

Post by Tod1d »

Sherab86 wrote:
Tod1d wrote: The chart that Tomrf5 did attempted to determine penetration of each weapon. He made every shot on the same 3D targets, and the same distances & angles.
Well, this is simply impossible if those were some random animals passing by. But I will take this chart as a best thing that we can have I assume. Thanks again! :)
They were the stationary 3D targets at the Archery Addictions Range. Just copies of the live animals, and each shot reports organs hit.
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Re: External Ballistics info on weapon/ammo charts. General info from devs on "damage" system.

Post by Sherab86 »

Tod1d wrote: They were the stationary 3D targets at the Archery Addictions Range. Just copies of the live animals, and each shot reports organs hit.
Oh, I wasn't there yet. I was not aware of character of this range till now. Then I apologize. Thanks. :)
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